VFB2 preview

[vlado]

I posted this in the other topic, but it's easy to miss it; Vladimir Nedev recorded a short video with his WIP for the new V-Ray frame buffer. There's obviously more work to be done, but I'm curious to see what your thoughts and comments are.

Best regards,
Vlado

[Vizioen]

I posted this in the other topic, but it's easy to miss it; Vladimir Nedev recorded a short video with his WIP for the new V-Ray frame buffer. There's obviously more work to be done, but I'm curious to see what your thoughts and comments are.

Best regards,
Vlado

I commented on the previous one already but didn't give any input. I was wondering this: as this system clearly allows for setting up some sort of lightmix similar to other rendering engines (maxwell, corona,..) but would require a little more work to set up before it's usable, will there be any presets or system that allows us to create presets to set this up, if you know what I mean. For instance > Load Preset > "Lightmix" or maybe "Beauty" (where all necessary render elements that make up the beauty pass are already correctly placed) etc...And with each element it's own dedicated denoiser slider perhaps.

[vlado]

Yes, there will be a short cut to creating a light mixing setup.

Best regards,
Vlado

[M.Max]

That's really cool !
I like the idea of layering things in VFB directly and working with LUT is more friendly now =D
I would like to know if there is any plans for color mapping settings in VFB ( filmic mapping for example )
Thanks!

[Ihno]

Will it be able to process sequences?

Looks pretty advanced already.
Here are some thoughts:
To me one big advantage of Nuke and Fusion is the ability to have multiple views which are accessible by just hitting one key. I'd love to see something like that.
We should have buttons for the most common things like adding an element layer. (Another 2d graphic editor's user would look for them in the downer right of the layer window.)
1+ For layer presets and their compositing (not only light select).
Can we get a histogram and maybe pixel information (rgb values) above the layer window?.
Pixel values could also take place on the downer border of the viewer.

[vladimir.nedev]

I commented on the previous one already but didn't give any input. I was wondering this: as this system clearly allows for setting up some sort of lightmix similar to other rendering engines (maxwell, corona,..) but would require a little more work to set up before it's usable, will there be any presets or system that allows us to create presets to set this up, if you know what I mean. For instance > Load Preset > "Lightmix" or maybe "Beauty" (where all necessary render elements that make up the beauty pass are already correctly placed) etc...And with each element it's own dedicated denoiser slider perhaps.

We will probably have a separate Layer type that does a light mix, you can see it in the "New Layer" menu in the clip, it's called "Relighter", but it's just a placeholder, nothing there yet.
Of course, there will be a way to save the Layer tree to a file and load it back.

I would like to know if there is any plans for color mapping settings in VFB ( filmic mapping for example )

I don't quite understand. The exposure, color balance, white balance, etc. layers are already different types of color mapping.
We do plan to add the filmic mapping at some point, since it's so popular.

To me one big advantage of Nuke and Fusion is the ability to have multiple views which are accessible by just hitting one key. I'd love to see something like that.

Do you mean multiple views of the image you are rendering ? Like a split screen, with the ability to zoom-in and pan to different parts of the image and look at them simultaneously ?

We should have buttons for the most common things like adding an element layer. (Another 2d graphic editor's user would look for them in the downer right of the layer window.)

I am not sure about that. Creating a new layer is just 2 clicks right now - click on the "new layer" button and then click on the layer type you want to create. The popup menu does need to be organized better and have some icons.

1+ For layer presets and their compositing (not only light select).

What do you mean by "compositing" the presets ? Can you elaborate ?

Will it be able to process sequences?

What kind of sequence processing would you like to see ? Just playback and application of the layers ? Something else ?
Probably not in the initial versions, but it's good to have an idea of what might need to be implemented.

Can we get a histogram and maybe pixel information (rgb values) above the layer window?.
Pixel values could also take place on the downer border of the viewer.

What should the Histogram be based on ? The final image or the image up to the layer that's selected ?


Greetings,
Vladimir Nedev

[jasonhuang1115]

Great to see the sneak peak of VFB2...
As mentioned that it will be great to have some built-in hotkeys (or better let users define hotkeys). ex. hold shift to LMB draw render region. R for the red channel, A for the alpha. I selfishly hope the hotkeys can match what's in Nuke but Fusion or Photoshop heavy users might not like the idea...

oh, One more thing: 3D navigation in VFB2. That and with the abilities to pick objects and materials in VFB, I can probably save lots of screen space occupied by viewport.

cheers,
Jason

[alex.nozadze]

looks cool !
thank you !

[wyszolmirski]

Looks very promising. Most of all I love the layering system.

Do you have any mock ups of how is it going to look in other apps and "standalone" VFB?

At first glance it seemed like it has too many options. It's fine if it's only for debugging but I feel it would be a bit too much for the user. I think it should/could be simplified a bit without actually loosing any options.

For example this - http://www.dabarti.com/screens/sf9b0...6cbd2e0d4q.png it could very well be just one slider that controls all margins at once.

Also ability to input custom aspect ratio instead of predefined ones would take less space on the screen and be much more useful. http://www.dabarti.com/screens/s36e6...55de41db1P.png Also shouldn't the "Center" "Fil inside" "Fil outside" be called "Center" "Fill" "Crop" or something in general more familiar?

The region seems a little bit too "different". Dragging the region most commonly is in the center - http://www.dabarti.com/screens/s0ce1...5825b38426.png or the whole region area is hit box for dragging - http://www.dabarti.com/screens/1eV36...37957fdf91.mp4 . Though personally I like the simplicity in Nuke - http://www.dabarti.com/screens/39X97...b441b6d05c.mp4 . It has all the functionality and most importantly it's not covering too much of the actual render.

Best,
Tomasz

[maxwood]

Looks very promising. Most of all I love the layering system.

Do you have any mock ups of how is it going to look in other apps and "standalone" VFB?

At first glance it seemed like it has too many options. It's fine if it's only for debugging but I feel it would be a bit too much for the user. I think it should/could be simplified a bit without actually loosing any options.

For example this - http://www.dabarti.com/screens/sf9b0...6cbd2e0d4q.png it could very well be just one slider that controls all margins at once.

Also ability to input custom aspect ratio instead of predefined ones would take less space on the screen and be much more useful. http://www.dabarti.com/screens/s36e6...55de41db1P.png Also shouldn't the "Center" "Fil inside" "Fil outside" be called "Center" "Fill" "Crop" or something in general more familiar?

The region seems a little bit too "different". Dragging the region most commonly is in the center - http://www.dabarti.com/screens/s0ce1...5825b38426.png or the whole region area is hit box for dragging - http://www.dabarti.com/screens/1eV36...37957fdf91.mp4 . Though personally I like the simplicity in Nuke - http://www.dabarti.com/screens/39X97...b441b6d05c.mp4 . It has all the functionality and most importantly it's not covering too much of the actual render.

Best,
Tomasz

I agree with Tomasz comments. Personally I don't think we need any of those thumbnail controls but they certainly can be simplified.

Feels a bit like reinventing the wheel with the region box for the same functionality

The region box controls could also be more user friendly, the thickness, opacity, distance etc. Does this mean edge feathering? Can these not be a visual representation? Perhaps a low opacity colour overlay on the region.

Does Cryptomatte work with this? That could be really powerful!

[vladimir.nedev]

Do you have any mock ups of how is it going to look in other apps and "standalone" VFB?

No, at some point I will port it to 3ds Max and we will see how it looks then.

At first glance it seemed like it has too many options. It's fine if it's only for debugging but I feel it would be a bit too much for the user. I think it should/could be simplified a bit without actually loosing any options.
For example this - http://www.dabarti.com/screens/sf9b0...6cbd2e0d4q.png it could very well be just one slider that controls all margins at once.

Personally I don't think we need any of those thumbnail controls but they certainly can be simplified.

The options are there so you can customize the look and feel of the history.
For example, somebody rendering mainly portraits will want to change the aspect of the thumbnail.
Somebody with a poor eyesight will increase the font sizes.

I do agree that on first look it can be intimidating, but I think we should hide them (for example by collapsing most of the roll-outs), instead of outright removing them and losing the functionality.

I intend to add a preset system per roll-out, so we can provide suitable presets for all options that affect the History look and feel.

Also ability to input custom aspect ratio instead of predefined ones would take less space on the screen and be much more useful. http://www.dabarti.com/screens/s36e6...55de41db1P.png

Do you mean inputting 1.7777, instead of 16:9 ?
I don't think that's more useful. Do you find that some useful aspect ratios are missing ?

Also shouldn't the "Center" "Fil inside" "Fil outside" be called "Center" "Fill" "Crop" or something in general more familiar?

I could rename "Fit Iniside" to "Fit" and "Fit Outside" to "Fill", that's how Windows calls these options when setting a Desktop background. Does that sound more intuitive ?

The region seems a little bit too "different". Dragging the region most commonly is in the center - http://www.dabarti.com/screens/s0ce1...5825b38426.png or the whole region area is hit box for dragging - http://www.dabarti.com/screens/1eV36...37957fdf91.mp4

Feels a bit like reinventing the wheel with the region box for the same functionality

My thinking here was that you don't want anything inside the region you are rendering.
Also, the area inside the region can be clicked to select the object and/or material under the mouse.
If you have the region move handle in the center of the region, you can no longer select objects/materials there.
The idea is to have material picking enabled by default in the new VFB, like we have it in MODO, so you don't have to constantly enable/disable it.

Though personally I like the simplicity in Nuke - http://www.dabarti.com/screens/39X97...b441b6d05c.mp4 . It has all the functionality and most importantly it's not covering too much of the actual render.

Seems to me the hit box is quite small in the Nuke version.
There is an option to modify the move/size handles' opacity, so they are less visible, when you are not using them.

For the region controls, we will have to release a beta first, so you can try them in practice and we can make modifications then.

The region box controls could also be more user friendly, the thickness, opacity, distance etc. Does this mean edge feathering? Can these not be a visual representation? Perhaps a low opacity colour overlay on the region.

There is no edge feathering feature at this point. These options are for the move/resize handles of the region.

Does Cryptomatte work with this? That could be really powerful!

Hopefully some day it will.

Greetings,
Vladimir Nedev

[vladimir.nedev]

Great to see the sneak peak of VFB2...
As mentioned that it will be great to have some built-in hotkeys (or better let users define hotkeys). ex. hold shift to LMB draw render region. R for the red channel, A for the alpha. I selfishly hope the hotkeys can match what's in Nuke but Fusion or Photoshop heavy users might not like the idea...

What hotkeys do you use most often in Nuke ?

oh, One more thing: 3D navigation in VFB2. That and with the abilities to pick objects and materials in VFB, I can probably save lots of screen space occupied by viewport.

There's already an option for this in V-Ray for 3ds Max with the current VFB.
At least part of this job falls on the plug-in developers.
We should probably move more of the code to the VFB core to make it easier.
But we have to finish more basic functionality before we can get to this.

Greetings,
Vladimir Nedev

[jasonhuang1115]

Hi Vladimir,

What hotkeys do you use most often in Nuke ?

Just out of my head:
r: switch to red channel, press r again to switch back to rgb
g: switch to red channel, press g again to switch back to rgb
b: switch to red channel, press b again to switch back to rgb
a: switch to alpha channel, press a again to switch back to rgb

shift + LMB to drag and specify a rectangular render region. Shift + LMB click to cancel an active render region
ctrl + LMB to engage pixel inspector for pixel value information.

Map-able hotkeys are probably more ideal I suppose.

There's already an option for this in V-Ray for 3ds Max with the current VFB.
At least part of this job falls on the plug-in developers.
We should probably move more of the code to the VFB core to make it easier.
But we have to finish more basic functionality before we can get to this.

Greetings,
Vladimir Nedev

I see. I am speaking as a Maya user. I guess if the code is moved to VFB, then adding and unifying features for VFB across DCCs is probably going to be easier.

[spyzor]

This looks really great !

I have one question about animation.
Would it be possible to save the manipulation that would be automatically processed when rendering an animation with the VFB activated ?

[Ihno]

Do you mean multiple views of the image you are rendering ? Like a split screen, with the ability to zoom-in and pan to different parts of the image and look at them simultaneously ?

Hm..
I'm not quite sure how that could be user-friendly in a live rendering layer based compositor..
In nuke and fusion I love that I can have two or even more viewers. So I can see for example the reflection element with corrections and the beauty simultaneously. I feel I've much more control because of that.
At 1:13 in the video there is this split screen thing. Is this possible with layers aswell? I think that would do the trick.
Select a layer hit A,B,C or D once to show image up to the layer that's selected and a second time to show the layer with corrections separated maybe another time to see the layer uncorrected.

I am not sure about that. Creating a new layer is just 2 clicks right now - click on the "new layer" button and then click on the layer type you want to create. The popup menu does need to be organized better and have some icons.

I might need to get my hands on the new vfb first. But for me this looks like alot of unnecessary hassle.

What do you mean by "compositing" the presets ? Can you elaborate ?

I think its basically what Vizioen asked for.
Vlado said there will be a shortcut for light select.
I guessed that would be some kind of button or a render element which adds automatically all scene lights and prepare their compositing I.e adds them on top of each other.
I never used corona though.

I ask for having this for some of the main compositing concepts. Basically a preset for both; the compositing and the render elements.
So I can coose the preset, render and have everything set up in the vfb.
I can then jump in and start with the corrections without the need to rebuild the beauty first.
It would be great if we could define those preset ourselves.

What kind of sequence processing would you like to see ? Just playback and application of the layers ? Something else ?
Probably not in the initial versions, but it's good to have an idea of what might need to be implemented.

OK great!
I'd be interested in using it as denoiser setup center I.e setting it up differently for different layers or something like that.
And sometimes I might use this for corrections of preview renderings as well.
It would be great if we could process our rendered animations with this. Maybe even submit it to network rendering.

What should the Histogram be based on ? The final image or the image up to the layer that's selected ?

The final image would make more sense.
But I'd like to have a small drop-down to choose.
If you would do the ABCD layer viewing split screen thing, a menu to choose which one the histogram is based on would do the trick.
I'd also love to have something like Nuke's sample node to develop and measure materials.
As described here:
https://forums.chaosgroup.com/forum/...324#post793324
But that might be too specific.