Vray 5 "use for glossy rays" option removed?!

[clay_creative]

So ^Lele^ kindly checked out the scene. He found that it was a shadow sampling issue and recommended using a max sample of 100 and a target noise threshold at the default of 0.01. Acknowledging the render times would be huge. The render times were crazy, so I started to look into why the shadows were a problem. I found the actual problem! It's one of the plane lights. It's actually perfectly aligned to the surface of a box object, so I think it's almost z-fighting with it (one frame is semi in the geometry, the next semi out). I've moved it a bit outside of the box and now everything is fine. Can't believe it was something so simple. Been using Vray for years and never done this, what are the odds that I do it on the first scene with Vray 5 which leads me to think it's Vray 5. Note to all, never use the 'autogrid' for aligning a light to a surface plane! . Thanks again ^Lele^ for looking at the scene.

[Joelaff]

Nice job, all of you.

I have had similar weird issues any time I had anything intersecting lights in VRay. I try to avoid lights touching each other too. I can’t describe what the results looked like precisely because I have been actively avoiding the intersections for years.

Glad you got it figured out.

[^Lele^]

So ^Lele^ kindly checked out the scene. He found that it was a shadow sampling issue and recommended using a max sample of 100 and a target noise threshold at the default of 0.01. Acknowledging the render times would be huge. The render times were crazy, so I started to look into why the shadows were a problem. I found the actual problem! It's one of the plane lights. It's actually perfectly aligned to the surface of a box object, so I think it's almost z-fighting with it (one frame is semi in the geometry, the next semi out). I've moved it a bit outside of the box and now everything is fine. Can't believe it was something so simple. Been using Vray for years and never done this, what are the odds that I do it on the first scene with Vray 5 which leads me to think it's Vray 5. Note to all, never use the 'autogrid' for aligning a light to a surface plane! . Thanks again ^Lele^ for looking at the scene.

Indeed, good find.
Thanks for looking into it more than it did.
I was very hesitant to change a thing in the scene, and took the thin, repeating shadows as a feature (unexplained by the scene, as far as i could see, but what do i know from parachuting into someone else's shot?), and proceeded to steady those.
Rendertimes ought to be a ton better too, that stripped shot on diffuse shading was taking eons to complete (another thing i couldn't quite fit in my head.).
Alas, all's well that ends well.

[kosso_olli]

Features are to be added, not removed. Seriously, Chaos, Stop Removing or Hiding Features! If the users can't figure out the software they can RTFM.)

How often did you have to change the "use for glossy rays" option in the last five years?

[m_hinks]

not at all over here! Prob never turned off since it was added!!

[clay_creative]

How often did you have to change the "use for glossy rays" option in the last five years?

Like every scene. I even had it set as the default setting (Turned off) for when max started for all new scenes. There were too many times where we would get a crazy flickering scene and when we are up against deadlines, which we always are, I couldn't take the risk of turning it on.

Fingers crossed, whatever caused it in Vray Next has been changed in Vray 5, and we will not have to use Maxscript to turn it off again. I might even load up one of the scenes where it did the flicker in Next (turned off) and see how it now renders in 5 (left on).

[^Lele^]

Like every scene. I even had it set as the default setting (Turned off) for when max started for all new scenes. There were too many times where we would get a crazy flickering scene and when we are up against deadlines, which we always are, I couldn't take the risk of turning it on.

Fingers crossed, whatever caused it in Vray Next has been changed in Vray 5, and we will not have to use Maxscript to turn it off again. I might even load up one of the scenes where it did the flicker in Next (turned off) and see how it now renders in 5 (left on).

We are to blame for leaving those options active, and for not communicating well enough what the correct workflow was (i.e. increase LC samples and retrace. Ensure enough AA is available. done.)

Please do try to re-render old scenes, however make sure you aren't dragging old issues along with them.
Resetting the settings (i.e. switch to scanline and back. do *not* have a v-ray render preset saved named as "default" or that will load instead of our defaults.) will often be fine, and more than enough, but be wary of any issue.
Also, turn on that Adaptive Dome: life's too short not to!

[clay_creative]

We are to blame for leaving those options active, and for not communicating well enough what the correct workflow was (i.e. increase LC samples and retrace. Ensure enough AA is available. done.)

Please do try to re-render old scenes, however make sure you aren't dragging old issues along with them.
Resetting the settings (i.e. switch to scanline and back. do *not* have a v-ray render preset saved named as "default" or that will load instead of our defaults.) will often be fine, and more than enough, but be wary of any issue.
Also, turn on that Adaptive Dome: life's too short not to!

Lol, yeah will do. I kind of want adaptive dome to be on by default now. Hopefully I'll remember to turn it on each time.

[^Lele^]

Lol, yeah will do. I kind of want adaptive dome to be on by default now. Hopefully I'll remember to turn it on each time.

I think it is on by default!

[clay_creative]

I think it is on by default!

Hmmm, I just tried tried adding a new dome light to the scene, it was off

[^Lele^]

I tried from both the toolbar and the max creation panel, it was always on.
Ensure you try it on a fresh scene, max will remember the last creation options for nodes.
If that fails, then we have a problem somewhere else.

[clay_creative]

Ok it might be because I set a default max scene. I'll look into it

[^Lele^]

Ok it might be because I set a default max scene. I'll look into it

Yes, that'll do it.
It's generally good practice to wipe/refresh user defaults between releases (f.e. also the "default" preset, should there be any, of the v-ray presets), or new factory defaults may be discarded.

[clay_creative]

Yes, that'll do it.
It's generally good practice to wipe/refresh user defaults between releases (f.e. also the "default" preset, should there be any, of the v-ray presets), or new factory defaults may be discarded.

Well I removed the saved maxstartup scene that I set, though it is worth noting I didn't copy the maxstartup from the previous Vraynext/3ds max 2020, this was a fully new maxstartup for 2021/vray5, created from scratch.

After removing the default file, I went back into 3DS and switch the render from Arnold to Vray 5, made a dome light, defaulted to "adaptive dome off" So I started thinking, are you using Vray 5 GPU? because we use CPU. So I switched to Vray GPU, and yeah that defaults to "adaptive dome on". So in summary is it possible that Vray 5 GPU defaults to "adaptive dome on" and Vray CPU defaults to "adaptive dome off"?

[Joelaff]

How often did you have to change the "use for glossy rays" option in the last five years?

Probably on 2% of projects. Note this was VRay 3. We usually changed it only for one or two objects, and only when a retract of about 8.0 wouldn’t work.

For stills/lock off shots, never. But we do VFX, which typically moves. More often than not the scenes where we turned it off included liquids (with bright highlights).

Honestly, I think I miss the per material setting more than the global one.