Why does the standalone denoiser let you choose AI or Intel denoisers when they don't work?

[JD3D_CGI]

So when attempt to use any denoiser other than the Vray desnoiser from the standalone denoiser, I just get an error:
error: [VUtils::OIDNDenoiser::denoise] 2: buffer region out of range

I rendered out my EXT sequence and chose the Intel denoiser and the "generate render elements" option.

Am I supposed to choose the Vray denoiser in the render elements setting, and then choose Intel denoiser in the stand alone?

How does this work? can anyone explain - I cannot find any documentation.

I have the recommended drivers installed.

[^Lele^]

This is already logged for improvement (also on the Max side).
You are supposed to use the denoiser you created the render elements for.
Anything else won't work with the above error.

[JD3D_CGI]

So when you say "use the denoiser you created the elements for"

What I did was, create my denoiser element, choose "Intel openn AI" and then set it to "only generate render elements"

What should I have done?

Also - we discussed this before, but no one has fixed the problem where the denoiser is writing all the denoiser elements into the denoised files.

it makes them way larger than they need to be, which is inefficient and wasteful. There's no need for it.

Please fix it!

[JD3D_CGI]

So here is how I set it up... what was I supposed to do?

[^Lele^]

So when you say "use the denoiser you created the elements for"

What I did was, create my denoiser element, choose "Intel openn AI" and then set it to "only generate render elements"

What should I have done?

This should work, it works here.

Also - we discussed this before, but no one has fixed the problem where the denoiser is writing all the denoiser elements into the denoised files.

it makes them way larger than they need to be, which is inefficient and wasteful. There's no need for it.

Please fix it!

Nothing to fix: you can get lean saves by using the split file dialog.
It's simply not doable otherwise (not without sensless amounts of resources.).

[JD3D_CGI]

So can the standalone denoiser denoise frame sequences using Intel or Nvidia denoisers?


Regarding the last comment:

Yes there is something to fix, I refer you to this post:

https://forums.chaos.com/forum/v-ray...-done-it-s-job


There are about 9 layers written into every EXR file AFTER denoising.

I know it doesn't take "senseless amounts of resources" - how utterly patronising and absurd. Just delete the un-needed layers from the new files.

There's a utility that does the same thing:

https://www.vfxgrace.com/product/exr_compression/

It deletes uneeded layers from EXR files - looks like it was made by an enthusiastic hobbyist. I doubt it took "senseless amounts of resources" - I'd bet €100 that a competent programmer could fix the standalone renderer in half a day at most.

[^Lele^]

So can the standalone denoiser denoise frame sequences using Intel or Nvidia denoisers?

Absolutely.
You just need to save the render with that denoise engine selected, so that the right REs are generated.
We're evaluating a better approach.

Regarding the last comment:

Yes there is something to fix, I refer you to this post:

https://forums.chaos.com/forum/v-ray...-done-it-s-job

That is part of the improvements logged for the standalone denoiser.
It's however low priority as it can be achieved in other ways with Post software.

I know it doesn't take "senseless amounts of resources" - how utterly patronising and absurd. Just delete the un-needed layers from the new files.

There's a utility that does the same thing:

https://www.vfxgrace.com/product/exr_compression/

It deletes uneeded layers from EXR files - looks like it was made by an enthusiastic hobbyist. I doubt it took "senseless amounts of resources" - I'd bet €100 that a competent programmer could fix the standalone renderer in half a day at most.

As a post process, it has to load and expand the EXRs, make changes, and resave.
That's doable with any post application, f.e. the free Fusion.

If you want lean, denoised saves from the renderer, as mentioned, use the split file save option: that will denoise, and discard the denosier-related REs from saving.
As you'll post process in PS, it's trivial to load each as individual layes, and you don't need a layered EXR as such.

We can't do that to any of the layered EXR saves, sadly.
Not unless we make a second copy of the EXR in ram and process that.
Considering image sizes and number of ancillary REs, it's far too easy to crash a render that's at the system RAM limits.
This is what i referred to earlier.

[JD3D_CGI]

It's already opening up the EXRs and writing them down isn't it? why is it so hard to just delete layers as it writes the image, or even, afterwards? it would add a like, one second per frame?

If you want lean, denoised saves from the renderer, as mentioned, use the split file save option: that will denoise, and discard the denosier-related REs from saving.
As you'll post process in PS, it's trivial to load each as individual layes, and you don't need a layered EXR as such.

That doesn't help with frame sequences though does it?

I feel like you aren't understanding what I mean.

I'm using the standalone denoiser because that's how you process hundreds of frames of animations temporarily right. I'm not talking about single frame EXRs?

I'm talking about thousands of frames of animation that needlessly have 9 layers of shit they don't need in them.

Considering image sizes and number of ancillary REs, it's far too easy to crash a render that's at the system RAM limits.
This is what i referred to earlier.

OK, so yeah, you really aren't understand what I am talking about.

I am talking about using the standalone desnoiser on an animation sequence that has already been rendered.

[^Lele^]

It's already opening up the EXRs and writing them down isn't it? why is it so hard to just delete layers as it writes the image, or even, afterwards? it would add a like, one second per frame?



That doesn't help with frame sequences though does it?

I feel like you aren't understanding what I mean.

I'm using the standalone denoiser because that's how you process hundreds of frames of animations temporarily right. I'm not talking about single frame EXRs?

I'm talking about thousands of frames of animation that needlessly have 9 layers of shit they don't need in them.



OK, so yeah, you really aren't understand what I am talking about.

I am talking about using the standalone desnoiser on an animation sequence that has already been rendered.

We'll let you know when the various denoiser improvements will be in the stable branches.

[Joelaff]

I would love to see the standalone denoiser remove the extra channels as well. Or at least have command line options to remove them. We never use the GUI, only command line via Deadline. Sure we can (and often do) reprocess the files to remove the channels, but this is yet another dependent job generating extra network traffic and file fragmentation for no real reason. It does not take any more memory to NOT write a channel to the file.

Basically we need a --dont-save-channels '<list>' option where we could specify which channels not to save. This is much better than specifying which channels TO save because the channels in the rendered files may change over time as we work on a project, deciding that we need more channels for some purpose. Remembering to also have to update these settings to add the extra channels would get tedious. If we could simply pick some of the channels that come from the denoising process which will never be used again and have them never saved out of the denoiser that would be ideal.

Also the denoiser should be able to read .vrimg, but write EXR. (or vice versa, but that former is more important). Right now it always write whatever format it reads.

Thanks.

[^Lele^]

We have a comprehensive list of denoiser workflow improvements, between your suggestions and our own analysis of what we have.
The whole workflow has changed quite a lot in recent times, and its fair to say we have some catch-up to do in matters of ease of use.
We just haven't quite gotten to it yet, as while somewhat more ardous that it needs to be, it works.
Unlike, f.e., USD and MtlX before this release.

[Joelaff]

I get it. Limited resources, unlimited wants and needs... Classic Economics !

When able, some of those would be nice to have. Of course I would much rather have the fireflies addressed, for example.

[JD3D_CGI]

This is more of a big deal than you think Lele - to be honest I've felt like it's taken so much effort to try and explain this to you and everyone at Chaos, but the main thing I feel everyone should really try and understand is that:

• This makes Vray files easier to work with in post production - animations are gigabytes smaller.
• Hundreds of gigabytes are saved over projects.
• Maybe that doesn't mater to you now because you have big hard drives an you're not paying for the space - but it does matter to us small guys.

And I DESPISE when companies reply to quality-of-life suggestions with "oh well you can do it like this..."

No. That's not how you improve software for artists.

It's such an easy thing to just delete the layers when you are writing the files. You make a render engine for crying out loud - telling me it's too hard to write a file you're already in process of writing to the hard drive? It feels like a junior task at best.

[JD3D_CGI]

And I reiterate - I am ONLY talking about deleting the layers with the standalone denoiser, not in 3ds max or during rendering.

[^Lele^]

This is more of a big deal than you think Lele - to be honest I've felt like it's taken so much effort to try and explain this to you and everyone at Chaos, but the main thing I feel everyone should really try and understand is that:

• This makes Vray files easier to work with in post production - animations are gigabytes smaller.
• Hundreds of gigabytes are saved over projects.
• Maybe that doesn't mater to you now because you have big hard drives an you're not paying for the space - but it does matter to us small guys.

And I DESPISE when companies reply to quality-of-life suggestions with "oh well you can do it like this..."

No. That's not how you improve software for artists.

It's such an easy thing to just delete the layers when you are writing the files. You make a render engine for crying out loud - telling me it's too hard to write a file you're already in process of writing to the hard drive? It feels like a junior task at best.

You're being cavalier with our time and resources, and your abusive attitude has gone far enough for my liking.
I've told you we'll do what you want, you keep coming back with insults.
The conversation is closed, updates will be provided when ready.