VrayDenoiser directly into the renderer please

[baumgore]

Thanks for the outstanding work with Vray till the beginnings and with the latest service pack.

Can we please get the Denoiser direct into the rendering instead of a extra pass(es)?
1. I need it when rendering without the VFB (our dedicated pipeline circumvent the VFB for good reasons)
2. It would simplify most day by day workflows a lot.
3. It's an amazing feature I don't want to live without, ever again.
4. Someone could simply miss it, because now it's kind of hidden.

At least please make it working without the VFB. Now VrayDenoise it's rendering black with only Alpha if rendered over 3dsmax's normal workflow.

[vlado]

It is really hard for us to make it work without the VFB. It might be easier just to fix whatever issues you are having with it. Can you explain this part a bit better?

Best regards,
Vlado

[baumgore]

We have a "renderer-agnostic" pipeline so using 3dsmax default save, using "Scene states" and "BatchRender", standardized 3dsmax render elements (IDs coming out as integer instead of colors, Z being the real distance and not an arbitary custom float) together with a standardized set of Vrays own render elements, rendering it over default EXR saver into EXR with always the same layer names/format layers on every job. Automated Nuke import gizmos decompose the EXRs into standardized base-compositions. It'a a very effective pipeline, so we need everything working without VR FSB. For very few "deep compositing" jobs we naturally have to fall back onto VRAYs own EXRs.
By the way we have an own denoise Nuke Gizmo which take our layer, uses different denoise levels/types on different elements (mostly on reflections/refractions and GI) and compose them back into RGB. We also use "Neat Image" as a out-of-the-box RGB denoiser with mostly good and fast results. But your Denoiser is a lot closer to the renderer and perform very good.
I didn't realize it's hard for you to implement the Denoiser without the VFB, so now I have this wonderful tool at my fingertips but can't use it because of our pipeline.
I now understand you need a lot of layer and probably only get them with the VFB.
The standalone denoiser, does is also need all layers? Does it work with EXR? I will look into it.

[vlado]

The standalone denoiser does work with multichannel OpenEXR files. We are looking into a Nuke plugin too.

Best regards,
Vlado

[^Lele^]

We have a "renderer-agnostic" pipeline so using 3dsmax default save, using "Scene states" and "BatchRender", standardized 3dsmax render elements (IDs coming out as integer instead of colors, Z being the real distance and not an arbitary custom float) together with a standardized set of Vrays own render elements, rendering it over default EXR saver into EXR with always the same layer names/format layers on every job. Automated Nuke import gizmos decompose the EXRs into standardized base-compositions. It'a a very effective pipeline, so we need everything working without VR FSB. For very few "deep compositing" jobs we naturally have to fall back onto VRAYs own EXRs.
By the way we have an own denoise Nuke Gizmo which take our layer, uses different denoise levels/types on different elements (mostly on reflections/refractions and GI) and compose them back into RGB. We also use "Neat Image" as a out-of-the-box RGB denoiser with mostly good and fast results. But your Denoiser is a lot closer to the renderer and perform very good.
I didn't realize it's hard for you to implement the Denoiser without the VFB, so now I have this wonderful tool at my fingertips but can't use it because of our pipeline.
I now understand you need a lot of layer and probably only get them with the VFB.
The standalone denoiser, does is also need all layers? Does it work with EXR? I will look into it.

I hear ya on all counts.
Particularly the arbitrary layer naming is a constant letdown, whichever shop i've been in.
I'd love to metadata layers in a more abstract way, but then it'd fall back to a labelling standard, just in a different place, and perhaps in a slightly different way (say, leave the name free, but have a metadata key with the RE type in V-Ray's expected format.), if it'd add one layer of freedom.

You likely will not need this, but to fire the denoiser quickly at a sequence it may be of some help:
http://forums.chaosgroup.com/showthr...(Maxscript-UI)

[baumgore]

Ok, things looks like this now (VR 3.4.01):

Using this global things/settings:
Bucket mode
VrayDenoise with replace RGB element with denoised, single pass RGB only
3dsmax own channels in EXR (Material/Object/RenderNodeIDs, Z, Velocity)
Vray render Elements (multiple Multimatte, VrayReflection, VrayShadows, VrayGlobalIllumination, etc.)
saving over 3dsmax own file-dialog as EXR with include external render elements checkbox

1. Rendering with VFB:
Denoised RGB OK
3dsmax own channels OK
Vray render elements not saved

2. Rendering with VFB but with "Memory frame buffer" OFF:
Denoised RGB not executed -> not saved
3dsmax own channels OK
Vray render elements not saved

3. Rendering without VFB (our normal workflow):
Denoised RGB not executed -> not saved
3dsmax own channels OK
Vray render elements OK


So I must choose between not having Vray render elements or not having the denoiser working (1 or 3).

[vlado]

Well, the choice, as they say, is yours At the moment, the denoiser is designed to work with the OpenEXR "raw image output" option or the "split render channels" options of the V-Ray VFB in terms of saving render elements and denoising the image. I didn't have time to look into any other output methods. I can probably make #3 to work, but there is little that I can do about #1 and #2.

Best regards,
Vlado

[vlado]

I can probably make #3 to work

Hm, I take that back. I can't make the denoiser to work with the regular 3ds Max output at all - the denoiser is coded around the V-Ray VFB and its data structures and it's not easy to rework it to read data from the 3ds Max render element bitmaps. So if you want to use the denoiser and write render elements at the same time, you should use either the "split render channels" option or the "raw image output" options of the V-Ray frame buffer.

Best regards,
Vlado