Vray Caramel Material

[fixeighted]

No problem to help out if I can....it's great fun!

If you're doing no animation then sculpting the best frame is definitely the way to go.
I'm sure it'll look great when finished

[XavBo]

Heres a quick update. Took the settings from what you shared and did small tweaks on my shader since I believe you are using Vray 5. Im still on Vray Next. I also used PhoenixFD and the particle shader to add the air bubbles from honey based on some reference images. Its looking more like the image but now i am getting weird artifacts around the nuts and where the liquid meets. I think it might be the liquid geometry is penetrating with the peanuts geometry. What do you all think? Open to suggestions and improvements that can be made.

Can you share your shading network ?
Looks like you push to much the multiplier or bias and this is the reason why you are having some strange black areas around the peanuts.
I dont know !
I need to see your shader.

I was playing a bit with the shader and I bacame this result.
Maybe this will help you. At the moment you have like a normal caramel shader, but this is a special caramel type.

Example #1 Lighting example.

Example #2 Playing with the shader.

Example #3 Shader completed.

The Simulation is quickly made using Phoenix FD.

NOTE:
Depends on your Monitors Colors, etc... you will experience different looks on the images I sent you as a example.

[luis_alcala]

Hello my Gurus,

Ok, so this is where I am at. Took a bit of the suggestions from Fixeighted and tweaked the material with the lighting. I am making a still life image render so it wont be animated. I took a frame from the PhoenixFD Sim, extracted it as an ABC file and did a quick zremesher in Zbrush to get some quads. Looks like that weird refraction result from the previous render around the nuts is gone, which is a good thing.

The material is a Vrayblend, with a vrayfastsss2 as the base and a vraymtl as a coat for extra control over the refraction. I am liking the look so far. I also added a particle shader on the phoenixfd sim to get those air bubble that appear in the honey. Per Fixeighted suggestion, I reduced the bubble count and adjusted the size modifier to get bigger and smaller bubbles.

Attached are the screenshots of the lighting setup. It has 2 area lights with temperature value being used for that orange/ yellow light coloring. I am also using an HDRI for those global reflections. I think I might use the wetmap feature from phoenix to blend with the nuts shader and make them look a bit more wet with the caramel material. I might also use Fixeighted suggestion since theoretically, it sounds like it should work. Anyways, sorry for the long rant. Would love to hear you guys thoughts as I continue with this. Thank you all for the time.

[XavBo]

Ok !
I see a couple of things here.
I will try to explain today and tomorrow too.

#1 You are using a SSS Shader which has already a coat.
Suggestion: I will turn off that coat on the SSS material.

#2 The setup of your lights are way to parallel to each other. The light will be bounce back and forward without not ending.
Suggestion: I will give them an angel so the light that is hitting from the back will hit towards to the floor.
The other huge Light you can live like that.

But if you ask me ... I will make smaller the huge Light and make it point to the camera moving th Light back and putting behind the object. Not 100% behind, but a bit.

Since you have a HDR lighting the scene too - you will just play with those 2 lights.

#3 I dont know about the Caramel scatter at .9 I will need to see your scene to evaluate, but looks like .9 is waaaaay to high.
I can tell you because you have a 92.6 almost 1 Meter distance from the camera.
But I cant be wrong on that.

#4 In my opinion you should also use the same Bump Map to the Coat on top

#5 The Base Color for your coat should almost white.
If you look into the first Image you post you can see that the reflections are almost white.

#6 I will increase the Glossines of your Coat at .92 for example.

#7 The Refraction Color of your Coat should be higher. I gues you are more or less at .720 and you should increase this to .880 for Example.

NOTE:
All my suggestions are just a calculation based on your Images. I will need to have look into the scene itself to evaluate correct the settings.
These are only suggestions.

[luis_alcala]

Hello Xavbo,

I ended up quickly trying what you suggested. Im pretty sure I changed what your recommendations were and it changes the look of my scene quite a lot. Moved and scaled the lights per suggestions and changed the values on the shader. Looks way different dont you think??? By the way, I am using cm in scale.

[fixeighted]

Can you post an image of this on the actual mesh?
To my mind it's not sufficient to base it on only a shpere as it can be very misleading when judging thicknesses etc.
You can download a few here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRjM...el=MographPlus
This one actually includes a nice caramel type mesh included on the ball, so ideal for things like this

[luis_alcala]

Hey Fix,

What do you mean post an image on the actual mesh?

[XavBo]

Hello Xavbo,

I ended up quickly trying what you suggested. Im pretty sure I changed what your recommendations were and it changes the look of my scene quite a lot. Moved and scaled the lights per suggestions and changed the values on the shader. Looks way different dont you think??? By the way, I am using cm in scale.

How do you like it ?
Looks pretty GOOD !
I will never thought, that it will work as I spected.

DAMN !
Really good.
NO JOACKING !!!!!! AT ALL !!!!!!

For me looks A LOOOOOOOOOOT BETTER !

Just let me know what do you think !
Save the Scene !
To make any comparations


BTW !
I have in front of me a Bottle of Caramel - so I know looks really good.

I will have a look tomorrow. It is time to sleep


EDIT :
Sorry mate, but I really like it !
Now you can see AAAAAALL the attributes that has the Caramel.

I will post tomorrow a Photo of the Bottle of Caramel that I have in front of me

EDIT 2:
I know about the settings in cm you are using

[XavBo]

AS I SAID !!!! I wasnt jocking when I said that looks extremely good.
I couldnt belive that I could made the changes without knowing or having the file

Have a look on the Photo I took. Just click somewhere in the Text.
Looks pretty good.

EDIT:
The Colors and the scattering works pretty nice !

#1 For the Coat reduce more the bump something like .002 and if you still seeing the bump map heavily, then just disconnect the bump.

#2 In the Coat please activate the "Use Roughness" under the "Reflection"

#3 Post a Picture. Because not having the Scene I dont know how the #2 will react. THNX !

[XavBo]

mmmmmm BTW !
Why you have 2 Liquids Phoenix Icons ?

Just curios.

[luis_alcala]

Hey Xavbo,

Reduced the bump and activated roughness. Makes the liquid look less translucent and opaque since the roughness is turned on. Might have to adjust a lower roughness value to make it look more like the last render. At that point, might as well leave it as is I believe.

I have 2 liquid icons because I am using 2 emitters to offset the drop of the liquid. The one on the left gives me the long tendril and the ones on the right are a bit slower so it doesnt drip off the surface. Render looks like this.

[XavBo]

DAMN ! I knew it ! But we needed to try it
That looks bad. SORY ! Was my fault

Ok then you need toooooooo ...
There are 5-6 ways to solve this !
Let us started with ... :

... I need your scene mate !

... let us try now ... DAMN ! Now it is difficult to decided which Solution it is better.



EVERYTHING BELOW FOR THE COAT ONLY !!!
We will start to tweak ONLY the Coat.


Ok !
#1 Turn OFF the "Use Roughness" under the "Reflection"

THE NEXT Steps PLEASE do separately and then combine them. See Steps below.

#2.1 Under the Reflection Tab change the "Brdf Type" to "Ward"
Then post a render.
Put back the Settings to the start point.

#2.2 Under the Refractions Tab reduce the "Refraction IOR" toooooo ... let me guess ... .420
Then post a render.
Put back the Settings to the start point.

#2.3 Put back the "Refraction IOR" to 1.520 and change the "Refraction glossiness" to .850 ..
Then post a render.
Put back the Settings to the start point.

#3 NOW COMBINE the 2 last on top
"Refraction IOR" @ .420 and the the "Refraction glossiness" @ .850
Then post a render.



Ok let us try with this changes, because as I said, to solve this small thing I need to have your scene.
If you can share the scene with me will be much easier to solve the small tweak.
No Problem I have also Phoenix FD

[luis_alcala]

ok Xavbo, let me send you a wetransfer link and share my scene.

[XavBo]

ok Xavbo, let me send you a wetransfer link and share my scene.

Sounds good !

EDIT:

Hi Luis !
Did you send something already ?

[luis_alcala]

Heres the we tranfer link. Included 2 scenes. One that Fixeighted is helping me out with and the one with the settings you suggested. Thanks again for the assistance.

https://we.tl/t-oE4madqyBf