Vray Caramel Material

[luis_alcala]

just sent it out. I think I included everything needed.

[XavBo]

Heres the we tranfer link. Included 2 scenes. One that Fixeighted is helping me out with and the one with the settings you suggested.

https://we.tl/t-oE4madqyBf

Perfect ! I will have a look in a couple of hours.
I will o to sleep and then I will come back with a result

Good night and talk to you later.

Thanks again for the assistance.

https://we.tl/t-oE4madqyBf

Sure !
No big deal !

[XavBo]

just sent it out. I think I included everything needed.

Hi Luis !

I already got the scene !
Thnx !

Ok !
I already got something.

Do you want the whole scene back or only the things you need to change ?
It is quiet simple.

For the moment I will live a couple of notes only.
You tell me if you want the whole scene back again.

NOTES:
Well ... your HDRI has a structure and is an unfinished HDR on the top.
This cause that your reflections looks a bit weird wheeeeeen ...

#1 I just add another VRayBerconNoise, connected to the Coat Bump and change these values:

Color 1 = .204
Size = 1.224
Low = .300 (I think I didnt change this one)

Doing this changes your HDR will be much visible in your material and the Structure on top of your HDR will be much visible.
As I said the HDR you have is unfinished and you will see the structure that create some art of Circles.

Solution to get rid of those weird Reflection Circles from the HDR ...
HM ! Let me add ...
Let me try to add a Light on top to get Rid of all the strange Reflections on the Caramel Shader.

#2 The next chage I did is in the Coat as I said before.
I just reduce the amount of "Reflection glossiness" @ .820
ATTENTION !
If you want to have a stronger Reflections, just adjust the "Reflection glossiness" to .920 i.e.

Im making a render so I can show you the changes an d how it looks now.
I will text you again.
Cheers !

[luis_alcala]

Hey Xavbo,

Would be cool to get the whole scene to see the changes in its entirety

[XavBo]

No Problem at all !
Is your scene

Now I add another Light will be better if you have everything back again.
Explaining the position of the Light will be a disaster

PLEASE HAVE A LOOK INTO THE FIRST TEST
#1 TEST


Test #2 is coming ! Looks MUCH MUCH better !

PLEASE HAVE A LOOK INTO THE SECOND TEST
#2 TEST

A third rendering is coming.
I didnt like on the Edges. Is to bright.





EDIT :
We need to change the Caramel Simulation because is way to thick and is catching a lot of light from behind.
I tried to manage this, but is way to thick.

I will explain where when the render is finish.


EDIT :

The las render.

PLEASE HAVE A LOOK INTO THE FIRST TEST
#3 TEST

[XavBo]

Hi Luis !

Here is the last Render


PLEASE HAVE A LOOK INTO THE FIRST TEST
#4 TEST


And you can download the scene under:

XBO CARAMEL SCENE (I change the Mesh a lot so looks a little bit more Dynamic and exciting. The lights also changed a lot)
Please click somewhere to download the scene.

Hope you like the Changes !
Cheers !


BTW, please let me know when you have the scene so I can delete the scene !
THNX !

[luis_alcala]

Hey Xavbo,

Thank you again for sharing the knowledge man. Going to examine the scene and see the changes and learn from it. I do like this render and caramel setting. Looks compelling and exciting. Going to do one more simulation and adjust some drips so that I can have different caramel colors and variations.

I got the scene. Thank you again for taking the time to teach the community. Im sure someone else will also find this very useful. Love the vray community and hopefully I can pass something else on.

[XavBo]

Hey Xavbo,

Thank you again for sharing the knowledge man. Going to examine the scene and see the changes and learn from it. I do like this render and caramel setting. Looks compelling and exciting. Going to do one more simulation and adjust some drips so that I can have different caramel colors and variations.

I got the scene. Thank you again for taking the time to teach the community. Im sure someone else will also find this very useful. Love the vray community and hopefully I can pass something else on.

Hi Luis !

Glad to hear that you got the scene and you are happy with the results.
Otherwise I will suppose to work harder

Was a pleasure helping you. No problem at all !
Have fun learning and hope you like what I change and did.

I wanted to change also the Camera settings, but that will be to much for the topic
There are a couple of things that you could change in the camera settings too.

Going to do one more simulation and adjust some drips so that I can have different caramel colors and variations.

Sounds great !
Just and in the Dynamics a little bit more grid
On the sides you can see the resolution of the mesh ... well you can export as you did and make smoother. HM ! Nah ! Live better like you did so this doesnt increase simulation time. At the end is not an animation

Thank you again for taking the time to teach the community. Im sure someone else will also find this very useful. Love the vray community and hopefully I can pass something else on.

No problem !
I had also fun making the things properly work and I was happy to help you also not having the scene by just only guessing.

Have fun and see you around in the forum


If you need something that you dont understand about the changes I did, just drop me a message so I can explain to you

Cheers !

[luis_alcala]

Here's where I ended up with the help of Fix and Xavbo. Learned alot from it and that there are different variations of caramel that actually exist . Just wanted to drop a raw render before doing a bit of comp. What do you guys think?

[XavBo]

HEY !
Looks great ! Really good !

Just one thing.
There is Light bouncing or lighting into the caramel from the inside.
If you can get rid of it than is done


Im glad to see that you also change the camera settings and you get rid also from the strong blue background

[fixeighted]

I'm afraid that I will be more constructively critical and make a few observations.

You're right; there are many variations of caramel and so it's your choice which to represent - they do mostly have the same characteristics though.
This version does look better; it looks like a nice thick and smooth caramel but to me it appears that some of the nuts look as though they are stuck to the apple, rather than being part of the sauce,
so that the sauce is flowing over them rather than with them.
They should almost always have some sauce over them I think, as this is what would happen in reality - you would mix in the nuts and then pour it, unless more were sprinkled over the sauce.
So when they stick out they look quite odd to me - those at the bottom especially, but also those where just a little of the nut is poking through.
They look their best when they are glimpsed beneath the surface - this also highlights the varying sss of the sauce and the way the light plays off this.

The little bubbles are too prominent and shiny, so that it looks like they are positioned on the top of the surface and they are far too regularly sized.
In reality they would be different shapes and sizes, all subsurface and blurred unless larger and so like in this example, nearer the surface.

Hopefully that helps and you can tweak it some more for the next one

[luis_alcala]

Hey Fixeighted,

Thank you for the input. This is one of the many reasons I enjoy 3D and everything that comes with it. Art is "subjective" and everyone sees it differently. I am happy with the outcome of the render but I am listening to what you are saying. I will keep that in mind and work on an additional render hitting all the points that you ironed out.

Going to try to figure out how to use the particle shader with Phoenix and see if I can change the aspect of the bubbles in the caramel so they don't look as perfect circles. Maybe messing with the ior for them will also help.

Thanks again for the help and time. I will post a follow up when I have something to show..

[XavBo]

I'm afraid that I will be more constructively critical and make a few observations.

You're right; there are many variations of caramel and so it's your choice which to represent - they do mostly have the same characteristics though.
This version does look better; it looks like a nice thick and smooth caramel but to me it appears that some of the nuts look as though they are stuck to the apple, rather than being part of the sauce,
so that the sauce is flowing over them rather than with them.
They should almost always have some sauce over them I think, as this is what would happen in reality - you would mix in the nuts and then pour it, unless more were sprinkled over the sauce.
So when they stick out they look quite odd to me - those at the bottom especially, but also those where just a little of the nut is poking through.
They look their best when they are glimpsed beneath the surface - this also highlights the varying sss of the sauce and the way the light plays off this.

The little bubbles are too prominent and shiny, so that it looks like they are positioned on the top of the surface and they are far too regularly sized.
In reality they would be different shapes and sizes, all subsurface and blurred unless larger and so like in this example, nearer the surface.

Hopefully that helps and you can tweak it some more for the next one

luis_alcala

Well I thought was also only about the shader. Since the title says "Vray Caramel Material"
It is kind of estrange to speak about objects reactions when is all about a SHADER.
If we will like to discuss about the simulation ... well this is the wrong topic-place to speak about the Phoenix FD Simulation.

If will like to do the Simulation in Phoenix is another story and rather than having them like that, I will probably make a Simulation where the Nuts will mix together with the Caramel.
With it you will achieve more realistic placement of the Nuts.

But this is an still image and I will live this as it is.
IMHO !

Cheers !

[fixeighted]

Well it's not really about the simulation per se, as this could just as easily have been a hand modelled mesh.
It's more the starting point from which to derive a mesh that can be further modelled to represent the ideal shape, hence the repositioning of the nuts.
Certainly my version when developing the caramel look was based on this, in order to correctly judge thicknesses.

Originally the objective was to closely represent the reference image on the first page.
So as I looked at it, it was not only about the shader, as that would be very situational and extremely varying - whether it is a cube toffee sort, or here as a sauce, or more of a hard 'nut brittle' type, if you see what I mean.

So my observations were not about the sim but rather about the end resulting shape of the mesh and 'perceived' interaction with the nuts

It would be interesting to see whether PHX can correctly sim the interaction but I don't think it is currently possible (I don't have it to test but have read such). But that is another subject

[luis_alcala]

Back here again with an update. I listened to everyone's comments and did more fine tuning and this is where I am at. I do believe its more to my liking and I included a bit of everything on what people from the community where helping me with. Changed the sim a bit so that the nuts are a bit more integrated with the caramel and added the small air bubbles.

Still trying to figure out how to use the particle shader. I am using the attached settings for the material and particle shader. The biggest hurdle I am having is trying to see how to adjust the air bubbles so they look more random in size and not as perfect circles. Maybe someone has used the shader and can shed some light on how to adjust these. Super welcome to any additional feedback people may have.