Turn off save alpha channel (problem with bongo animations)

[schultzeworks]

First, thank you for getting rid of the 'batch render' requirement when doing animations. Its now back to the original & not necessary configuration. So much better and intuitive.

The current issue is there is no way to TURN OFF the alpha channel. It does not even show up in the Render Elements roll-out and is ALWAYS ON in the frame buffer.
PROBLEM: When we do a 300 frame animation in Bongo, using PNG files, we get 300 alpha channel files that have to be manually deleted.
DETAIL: These alpha channels MUST be deleted, because we import the entire sequence into apps like After Effects.

WISH / IDEA: have the' Render Elements' roll-out MATCH the frame buffer!
In this example, we would see 'RGB Color' and "Alpha Channel' in the Render Elements -- because they are already being rendered.
The way these channels get 'added' does not match the rest of the app. I'd like to see a full list of all channels with check boxes for ON or OFF.
It would be SO MUCH easier than the current 'loading' them from a hidden list.
.
.

[aaouviz]

Another idea I have is to include a toggle, which lets Vray either save just the RGB channel, or all the used Render Elements (so if they're turned on in the Asset editor, they're only saved if the toggle is 'on').

This would be handy for test animations, as Daves point is valid - it's a pain to have to delete the extra render elements. (Though, having said this - big props to ChaosGroup for the naming system which means the RGB is always first on the list!)

[Micha]

+1 for disabling the alpha channel output

[konstantin_chaos]

Hi guys,

The Alpha is automatically created by V-Ray and there is no way for us to remove it form the VFB.
On the other hand if a custom output path is specified some image options appear with the possibility to disable the alpha output:

This should work well with our animation control.

On the other hand I don't think it'll help the output from Bongo.
Bongo is saving the render view image separately I believe.
We will look into this and try to resolve it.

Another thing that I have to point out is that even if you save the image from the VFB as png the transparency does not remove the color information in the RGB channel.
If the image is loaded in XnView or PDPlayer it can be viewed with or without the alpha/transparency.

Regards,
Konstantin

[schultzeworks]

Hi guys,

On the other hand I don't think it'll help the output from Bongo.
Bongo is saving the render view image separately I believe.
We will look into this and try to resolve it.

All I am looking for is consistency. Right now, you have two different systems for saving elements ... and NO way to turn off one of them.

I train people in a college class and online at lynda.com / LinkedIn learning. What seems obvious to an expert (or the programmer) can be incredibly frustrating for some (a) learning the software for the first time or (b) not using it often enough to memorize every command AND work-around.

Remember that infrequent users are a BIG portion of your audience. If the learning curve is too steep, you risk losing them to the competition. They may never come back.

On the positive side, this new interface is a HUGE improvement. Congratulations for the excellent work. It just has a little room left to make it even better. Listen to the nerds here who care enough to tell you and help you.

[Micha]

I'm curious - why can't this function be implement anymore? I'm using a VfR2 test version based on Vray 3.2 - disabling the alpha output is no problem. So, I suppose so the core engine can't be the problem.

For me it looks like VfR3 will bring some serious workflow disadvantages.

[schultzeworks]

OK, here's the fix if anyone is interested.

- Show ALL output in the Render Elements. This includes 'RGB Color' and 'Alpha channel.'
- Show every element on a visible list, with a simple on/off slider [or check box] that you are already using elsewhere in the UI. [Right now, element-items are hidden & need to be 'loaded.']
- In the Frame Buffer, you can still see what is selected. [No change]
- I would place a tool tip-note in the Frame Buffer 'Change via 'Settings > Render Elements'

[konstantin_chaos]

Hi guys,

As I mentioned before the Alpha can't be removed from the VFB.
This is a core behavior that we'll not be able to change.
The option to disable it was available in V2 but now is deprecated and will no longer work.
This means that even if we list it as a render element, you'll not be able to delete it.

schultzeworks
> The checkbox idea for the elements was considered but will not work since we want to support multiple instances of a render element - Extra Tex for example.
This is still unavailable but we intend to implement it.
On the other hand the Render Elements manager UI might still be improved.
> The tool-tips in VFB is not something we have control over - the window is part of the core and is shared between all the VRay plugins.

Regards,
Konstantin

[Micha]

Hi guys,

As I mentioned before the Alpha can't be removed from the VFB.
This is a core behavior that we'll not be able to change.

Hi Konstantin,

please ask the core team to bring back the old option to disable the alpha. It cause more work at the user end and why not adapt the software to the users need? For example in the past I rendered Bongo animation where I use a panorama background environment. Camera movement and background perfect match for each frame.

Or an other example - during a project I render a lot of interior shots. The background environment is nice looking behind the windows and I want to keep it for the final images. Did I understand right it is recommended to manual remove the alpha for each saved render output?

[Travis Serio_cg]

I'm generally used to major changes to the software on Major version releases and can appropriately plan to deal with the disruption and changes but it definitely get's costly in time, resources, and money when we are looking for service releases for bug fixes and encounter major work flow changes. Just some food for thought. Sometimes a simple thing internally creates a costly complex situation externally and might be better issued during a major release change.

[schultzeworks]

OK, its a year later and the problem is still here and still bad. All I am asking is that we be able to turn OFF the saving of unwanted channels. A simple list that has alpha, effectsResult, etc. Then, a slider that lets me turn each one off, if I don't want it. Simple!

Let me illustrate how crazy this can get. I did an animation of 100 frames, which was a sequence of stills. I got 300 files! I then had to manually delete the extra 200 files so I could import a clean batch of 100 into After Effects.

[Micha]

Two years later and I'm spend a lot of time to remove alpha channels from renderings since I need the background visible.

vlado or someone from the core team - please add a way to save renderings without alpha information.

[Peter.Chaushev]

Options whether to save a separate file as alpha channel exist in the V-Ray Render Output settings (Save Image > Image Options > Alpha). This, however, cannot be utilized when V-Ray is called by Bongo to render its animation.
One of our developers just informed me a ticket is already logged in McNeel's system.

As for removing the unnecessary alpha channel image files. It can be done in a couple of seconds. Simply search the directory for "Alpha" and then press Ctrl+A to select all followed by Delete.

Kind regards,
Peter

[Micha]

Hi Peter.Chaushev

my request is to save an images/frames without alpha information. This is also needed for animations if the background should show the environment map. But also for rendering still images it's cumbersome to remove the alpha information at every image again and again ... . V-Ray rendering is fast, but after the rendering is finish I need a lot of time by the slow saving and removing the alpha information. I would be glad if we could find a solution for this simple issue.