Fly-through mode for Animations

[dalomar_cg]

Re: Fly-through mode for Animations

(Hmm, on the other side, if one of my clients needed it, than I could use my dusty Maxwell license.)

Which would again take years ;D. In a pinch I would actually render out two passes...one of the main scene, and one of what you would like to be motion blurred. Then in photoshop you can comp them together and get a motion blur effect by the Motion Blur filter on just the second layer. Fairly simple and takes an extra 3 minutes as opposed to days with the other option.

[Micha_cg]

Re: Fly-through mode for Animations

Yes, this would be fast. If the user need, that shadows and reflections match perfect, a good workflow would be:

* render scene with object invisible for camera (to get the scene with shadows and reflections of the object)
* renderwindow of the object with mask channel (render object with all shadows and reflections from the scene)

It's a pity, that mask channel and object visibility are not direct supported (basic options, very old wish), newer users must look at the forum for the workarounds. :-\

Also, Photoshop can be used for linear motion parallel to the screen only, other directions are not so easy.

[dalomar_cg]

Re: Fly-through mode for Animations

Motion blur as suggested workflow above, then use a perspective distortion...I'll play around a little today if you need an example.

Yea, we need to get all the rest of the channels in there as well.

[Micha_cg]

Re: Fly-through mode for Animations

An other question: in which 3D space is the LC calculated?

For example I render an object from one side and save IM/LC. Than I render the object from the other side based on LC/IM cache. It looks bad, because the IM has sampled at the visible areas of the first rendering only, that's right. So, I enable "incremental add .." for the IM. Now, the IM cover the whole object. The LC cache too? I set my object to a chrom material and enable "use for glossy rays". Anything looks perfect, based on the cache of the first rendering.
So, is it right, that I need one LC calculation and a handfull IM calculations as basic for a turntable animation?

So, if the LC calculate the whole scene, what is the limit? If I render an interior with three rooms, will I get a LC cache for all rooms per single rendering of the first room?

[dalomar_cg]

Re: Fly-through mode for Animations

The way LC is structured you cannot add to the solution after it has been compiled from the generating raycasting structure to the sampled points. The solution is automatically compiled when the solution is finished. Therefore a saved LC map cannot be added to in the same way a saved IR map can be added to. The only way to really do that is to sample multiple camera locations which is what Flythrough Mode does. This basically means that until we add Flythrough mode you will need an LC calc for every frame, and in its current form you would only be able to use this for animations. IOW having a list of views within the scene would not work with LC compiling into one map.

With the exception of Photon Mapping/Caustics all of the other calculation methods are view dependant, meaning that they will only be valid for the view that rendered the solution.

[Micha_cg]

Re: Fly-through mode for Animations

The way LC is structured you cannot add to the solution after it has been compiled from the generating raycasting structure to the sampled points.

Right, that I havn't wrote, my question is an other. The question is, which area is covered by the LC pass? It's not the at the camera visible part of the scene only, but what?

But ... something is wrong. I changed the color of the ground plane from white to red and the reflections show me a red ground plane too, but LC cache and "use for glossy rays" is enabled and should show the previous used and cached white plane.

Also if I disable caching for IM and set LC read cache, than I see no "c:/...LC.vrlmap" is loaded at the process window. Also if I set a wrong cache file name, I get no error. Is there a bug? If I set a wrong IM cache name, than I get an error.

[dalomar_cg]

Re: Fly-through mode for Animations

Right, that I havn't wrote, my question is an other. The question is, which area is covered by the LC pass? It's not the at the camera visible part of the scene only, but what?

My last comment answers that question. A veiw dependant method will only calculate the information that is necesary for a specific view point. Anything that is hidden from view will not be calculated.

Here's a test for you. Set LC as Primary and Secondary engine. Have 2 objects in the scene, one that is completely blocked from view by the other. Render out the LC pass, save it, and change the mode to From file. Now set the Interp Samples in the filter option to 1, change the view so that you can see the previously hidden object, and render. You will see very poor coverage where the view was obstructed with some black spots probably.

But ... something is wrong. I changed the color of the ground plane from white to red and the reflections show me a red ground plane too, but LC cache and "use for glossy rays" is enabled and should show the previous used and cached white plane.

Use for Glossy Rays does not save the reflections. I'm not sure exactly how it works, but I believe that it saves certain ray intersections that are generated from a glossy surface. Therefore, the intersection will still read the material from the object that generated the intersection.

Also if I disable caching for IM and set LC read cache, than I see no "c:/...LC.vrlmap" is loaded at the process window. Also if I set a wrong cache file name, I get no error. Is there a bug? If I set a wrong IM cache name, than I get an error.

I'll take a look at that.

[Micha_cg]

Re: Fly-through mode for Animations

Thank you, so the conclusion is - the LC is viewdependent and sample the visible area only, my presumption was wrong. It's a pity, that no curve can be used for LC sampling, could be a big help here too.

Also, I tested the "use for glossy rays" - like you say ... and I found, that the LC is used for the reflections, if the glossieness is below 1. Than I see the LC blotches (low quality LC used).

So, it stay the LC cache read issue - it seems to be, the LC is read from the RAM. If I delete the saved cache file, than Vray use the LC from somewhere and if I additional press "reset", than the LC is rendered black. So, it looks like the read option isn't right linked.

[dalomar_cg]

Re: Fly-through mode for Animations

Thank you, so the conclusion is - the LC is viewdependent and sample the visible area only, my presumption was wrong. It's a pity, that no curve can be used for LC sampling, could be a big help here too.

We'll see what we can do about this when we go through adding the scene export process necessary for LC fly thorough and MoBlur. That should be happening later on in this development cycle.

Also, I tested the "use for glossy rays" - like you say ... and I found, that the LC is used for the reflections, if the glossieness is below 1. Than I see the LC blotches (low quality LC used).

The quality of glossy reflections when Use For Glossy Rays is enabled is tied to the accuracy of the LC solution. You should only really see any noticeable difference when using a low quality LC map...medium or high quality should be just fine.

[quote]
So, it stay the LC cache read issue - it seems to be, the LC is read from the RAM. If I delete the saved cache file, than Vray use the LC from somewhere and if I additional press "reset", than the LC is rendered black. So, it looks like the read option isn't right ]
I'm getting some weirdness too...I'm getting no print to the progress window that the solution is loaded or not loaded. It does look like its being read from the file though, since when I rename it there is no LC information. If I still have the map in memory, then it will load that if the file name is wrong. At this point, this all seams to be acting as expected, but just not printing its actions to the progress window.

[Micha_cg]

Re: Fly-through mode for Animations

I'm getting some weirdness too...I'm getting no print to the progress window that the solution is loaded or not loaded. It does look like its being read from the file though, since when I rename it there is no LC information. If I still have the map in memory, then it will load that if the file name is wrong. At this point, this all seams to be acting as expected, but just not printing its actions to the progress window.

Could you report it to Vlado please? It would be nice, if it is clear defined and reported, which cache is loaded from which source.

[Micha_cg]

Re: Fly-through mode for Animations

Back to the "Fly-through mode for Animations". Today I got an idea - forget Bongo, why not support the Rhino animation tool first. It's free for all Rhino user, very easy to use and the data camera target/path are quite simple. And I suppose, if a camera path of the animation tool is sampled, than the calculated LC cache can be used for a Bongo animation along the same path too.

Is this not a good compromise for everybody?

[dalomar_cg]

Re: Fly-through mode for Animations

I'm not sure which one would really take longer, Bongo or the Built-In tools. Andy mentioned last week that bongo has an interface to access object positions and different points in the time line. That basically sounds like what we need to get moBlur done for bongo, but with the builtin tools, we're going to have to do all the loading/camera manipulation ourselves. It may be easier because just do it how we need it, or harder because we need to do things from scratch. Ultimately, its probably going to be best to deal with both at the same time, since both are going to have to tie into the motion blur stuff anyway.

[Micha_cg]

Re: Fly-through mode for Animations

Damien, I don't mean motion blur, I mean the LC Fly-through mode. So far I understand, camera paths are needed for this feature. The simpliest implementation could be one for the Rhino animation tools - only one (two) path(s) must be read by VfR. It can't be so complicated to read one or two curves.

[dalomar_cg]

Re: Fly-through mode for Animations

As I've said a number of times before, the two are HIGHLY related. They require the same information in order to do what they need to do, so once we hand over that information, both will be able to work.

[Micha_cg]

Re: Fly-through mode for Animations

Hmm, that's a pity, that two curves and a camera FOV are not enough.