The difference between materials

[fluke73]

The difference between materials

If he names it the same as the presaved vraymtl, vray automatically recognises it and links them.

Yeah biebel i really like this thought.

[kwistenbiebel1]

The difference between materials

Yes Joeb! It's sounds like a good thing that biebel is sugesting - that is how i would like to work. Just to be able to start sketchup set up different colors for all the different materials - then when done building i go into vray editor and apply different settings to each material - or load a existing material INTO the material that is allready defined. So i paint with a yellow color and name it Gold - it's not gold but when i go into vray material editor i would then just load a material into that "slot" or allready defined material.

Fluke, i didn't mean it exactly the same way as you describe.
In the suggestion i made , the SU material will need a texture , and that texture is automatically used as diffuse map in the autolinked 'blank' vraymtl.
In this way it always stays WYSIWYG.

The method you describe also could work, but that would take out the WYSIWYG, because you would end up with just colours in Su, and textures in vray.
...or did I misunderstand what you said?

[fluke73]

The difference between materials

biebel: Im with you... i meant both color or texture. It was just an example. You still will need to go in and make things in the vray material editor, like adding other maps, like bump, mask specularity and so on so changing the texture and diffuse within the vray should override the the texture in SU like it do today - but if you assign a wood texture in SU then that would be the same in vray and then adding stuff to that in the material editor.

At some point you justy might to have representive colors and textures in sketchup and then others in vray but from SU to vray it works.. but the otherway arround would be strange... like changing the texture in vray material editor will not be able to change then texture within SU.

[kwistenbiebel1]

The difference between materials

Ok Fluke, we are on the same level now..

.....By the way, I think the 'autolinking by name' can be implemented easily in vray.

It would take writing a script that compares the names of both SU-material library and Vray-material library.

If Vray detects both a SU material and a Vray counterpart material (they have the same name) it will automatically link them.

If Vray detects a unique SU material (without an identically named vraymaterial) it will automatically create a 'blank' vraymaterial with the same name and with a diffuse map that is the same as the sketchup texture.

But what would happen if vray detects a unique Vraymaterial (without an identical counterpart in SU)?

Then a script could automatically add the counterpart material in SU?..I don't know if that is possible....maybe by making a rubyscript integrated in Su that does that?
In this way we would have 'autolinking' in both directions.


I am just thinking out loud here....

[fluke73]

The difference between materials

But what would happen if vray detects a unique Vraymaterial (without an identical counterpart in SU)?

Biebel: that's where we drift appart... i think vray should keep track on what's going on in SU but not vice versa... if you change in vray... it's still what it is in SU material... because sometimes you want a representative image in SU like leaf or a billboard guy. Then you have a png thingie there. And in vray you use maybe a transparancy map - or maybe you're creating some complex material that you want to represent with a certain texture like windows for intance. Maybe you want them to have a light fade or faked reflection within sketchup.

[kwistenbiebel1]

The difference between materials

Point taken...Hey, this is fun, going in debate about a possible workflow

About using .png alpha textures in SU (transparency clipping):
It would be great if 'autolinking' could automatically create the according 'clip map'/'opacity map' in the according slot of the linked vraymaterial.

The same applies for the 'opacity' settings in SU, assigning automatically the transparency setting in the vraymaterial.

These kind of things would save users a lot of time and would make Vray very attractive to use.

[fluke73]

The difference between materials

It would be great if 'autolinking' could automatically create the according 'clip map'/'opacity map' in the according slot of the linked vraymaterial.

Again Biebel: Nice idea...

Yeah i like the way we're able to discuss things here and also knowing that the ASGvis team is actually reading the things we're saying - im not saying they will do everything we say - but they get it noted.

Im getting out of here for today it's 7pm here and it's time to get out of the office and head for the pub. Have a great weekend - nice to share thoughts with you Biebel

[joe_b]

The difference between materials

Anything that will make our users workflow easier makes me happy. We aren't the people who use SketchUp everyday - so your gut reactions are things we need to pay very close attention to. I really like the idea of having the SketchUp materials already linked and ready to go when the scene is loaded. I also like the idea of having the SketchUp counterparts to materials created on the V-Ray side. The only common things between SketchUp and V-Ray would be the diffuse layer, but thats still something at least.

[kwistenbiebel1]

The difference between materials

....We should have a similar debate on how to simplificate the use of 'lights' and 'sky' as well...

...and another thing:

Not all of the parameters in vray that can be set have a big influence on the rendering time/ quality.
Why not disabling those parameters for normal users....and making them accessible with an 'advanced checkbox'?
...Or maybe just give the crucial parameters a colour, so the 'noob' users can see which parameter really makes a difference, and which to leave untouched when not an expert.

In this way it is easier for a beginner to try experimenting with settings.
This could make the learning curve easier. It avoids tempering with not so crucial settings without knowing the basic parameters that should be set first...


regards,
biebel

[joe_b]

The difference between materials

....We should have a similar debate on how to simplificate the use of 'lights' and 'sky' as well...

I'm interested to hear whatever ideas you may have

Not all of the parameters in vray that can be set have a big influence on the rendering time/ quality.
Why not disabling those parameters for normal users....and making them accessible with an 'advanced checkbox'?
...Or maybe just give the crucial parameters a colour, so the 'noob' users can see which parameter really makes a difference, and which to leave untouched when not an expert.

Yes this all fits into the idea we've been kicking around of moving toward a beginner/intermediate/advanced user-level seeing different options. We have some ideas planned out - though we originally were not planning on doing this overhaul prior to releasing VfS...but we may have to reconsider that idea given the nature of our conversations and general responses. Its hard for me to weigh whether its the lack of documentation or if its the UI that leads to most people's problems.