I just finished writing an article on my blog as to how much we should charge as an industry whole. While I am not saying that you should charge exactly what I suggest, I am stating that we should all need to keep our standards high and show respect and value for our work.
I hope this article is useful. I’d love to hear your feedback and comments, preferably on the blog. Links back are also appreciated. Let’s stick together!
great article,
I agree wholeheartedly with everything you say.
I hope that everybody has a read and can see that it’s not in anyone’s interest to make prices low
increase the quality, increase the price!
Cheers
Thanks man. I know it’s a bit of a read, but I think it helps put the “money” part into proper perspective for some.
We can always try to charge lower, lower, and lower in order to get a job. The fact is, our utility and grocery bills stay the same - in fact they go up. There needs to be a minimum standard at which we are willing to work and also try to turn some things down.
It is important to figure out what it takes to earn a living, but this phrase seems a bit pompous… Yes what we do is complicated, and takes talent, but I am not sure I agree with this statement. Maybe it was partially intended as an exaggeration.
“It’s 10X more com*pli*cated than elec*tri*cal or plumb*ing ser*vices. I’d wager that it’s even more com*pli*cated than being a pilot fly*ing a rocket into outer space (minus the risk of death.)”
It does sound pompous. But I think it’s the truth. There’s many times I thought about giving up this work - in particular the photorealistic aspect and going into other lines of work. I’ve also probably worked 20+ different jobs in my life: grocery store cashier, patent editor, english teacher, research analyst for xerox, masonry, letter folder, graphic artist, production artist, editor, mail boy, web developer, etc. Point is - this is the hardest thing I’ve ever done. Keep in mind running stuff is all self-taught with no schooling, website work, marketing, illustrator, photoshop, the 3d aspects including modeling, lighting, texturing - then throw Vray on top.
But yes you’re right - I’m probably better off removing or rephrasing that. But it’s quite honestly the way I feel about what we do - unless of course you only do one thing or was fortunate enough to have someone teach you the basics (I find it surprising but half the people on here don’t even know Photoshop - that somehow blows my mind.) But I can’t think of too many other jobs or careers which require someone to put on this many different hats. You’re constantly switching gears - especially if you have to deal with the business and marketing aspects.
Apprentice anyone of us to an electrician, carpenter, or plumber for a few months - I’m certain we can pick up most of their trade (my dad and grandfather happens to do all three.) Apprentice them to our line of work and watch most of their heads explode.
Edit* Just edited that. Thank you for the critique:
“Running my company (artwork creation, 3D knowledge, self-education, marketing, invoicing, sales, etc.) is more complicated than any other job I’ve personally ever seen and requires multiple skill sets. What do you think I should be charging if I spend an hour’s worth of work on something?”
Well, Jujubee, I can see where you’re coming from, but I always feel that when people start thinking along these lines they get a little too close to ‘price fixing’, which I believe is illegal. I’d be very careful about encouraging a group of fellow business owners to collaborate on their rates and you’re very brave to post it on the internet!
The trouble is we live in a capitalist society that encourages competition and doesn’t limit it in any way. I’m not saying that it’s the right way to live, but it’s something we don’t have too much choice about unless we restructure society around different values. We just have to work with what we’ve got.
Personally I think it’d be far better for us all if everybody lived under the principles of Buddha…
Group hug =)
People can do whatever they want to do ultimately.
But if you’re asking what to charge, a person should honestly look at how much it costs for them to live, and also consider that of others.
That’s not price-fixing. That’s simple math in order to survive.
Price-fixing usually involves only a few people - let’s say oil companies that controls everything. The oil companies all agree that they have a minimum amount they will charge, and as a result everyone else follows suit.
We don’t have a few people - we have thousands that we cannot control instead. If anything, this would be more like a union, except this it not a union… That’s part of the problem.
VERY interested in this. We’ve been shocked at some of the quotes we’ve been hearing about recently…
reputation guarantees work
but you’re only as good as your last job
so the service is as important as the work
the more you charge, the better you are perceived to be
when you have lots of work and feel confident about the situation, put prices up
that’s what I put in my pipe anyway
here’s to price fixing !
Since we provide a service I find it best to charge a per hour fee.
We are illustrators and in a city like Chicago an illustrator makes between $44 - $64 per hour. It doesn’t seem to matter if you are a still illustrator or an animator it is about the same; it just takes an animator more time.
I usually look at a project and I break it down into hours and I quote accordingly. A lesser complex project is around $45.00 per hour and a very complex project I charge around $65.00 per hour.
The reason I get frustrated is I buy all my software, which is costly, and others steal theirs. If someone is operating out of their parents basement with stolen software then I can’t compete. This isn’t fair and I am hoping cloud computing changes this.
That sounds completely fair Bobby. Ultimately, professionals have to at least look at how much it costs to survive and break down their quotes that way and that’s what my article focused on - the bottom line.
$50/hour - assuming you work a 40 hour week = $2,000. 4 weeks in a month = $8,000. $8,000 X 12 - $96,000/year.
The truth is that you’re probably not going to be working that solid so let’s say you’re lucky and you do half that amount of work, then that’s $50k.
Those numbers are a good figure to survive - at least here in any city in the US (except maybe LA.)
There’s no reason however you shouldn’t be able to double that (or more) if you’ve taken the risk to run your own company or freelance.
I think it’s safe to say that an average simple job with minimal changes takes 3-5 working days or one week. I’ve banged out things quicker and slower. I don’t mind as much taking more time and polishing something people can pay more for.
What really p*sses me off is when someone charges under $1,000 for a rendering for a week’s worth of work. That’s just really screwing us all over. Those kinds of prices should be Sim City/Second Life quality graphics.
Of course, if you’re brand new to the field and need some clients to walk through the door - you could entice them with lower rates. But eventually as you get a few portfolio pieces under your belt, you need to raise them in order to simply survive.
The other thing I should add is that we are not just plain illustrators. We specialize. Just like there’s medical illustrators - we have a specific craft that should be held in higher regards. It’s just like the medical field - there’s general doctors and then there’s specialists. The specialists can often function as a regular doctor, but they take it one step further.
This one took me about 3 days and I charged $720.00. When I got the PDF’s of the floor plans and elevations I decided it would take me a day to model, 1 day to render, and 1/2 day of post. I was pretty spot on. I guess if I do my own math I undercharged, but they are really good clients.
What would you guys have charged? how long would it have taken you?
If I follow my own formula this is how it should have played out:
3 - 8 hr days = 24hrs
Low complexity so it would fall into the $45.00 per hour
24 x 45 = $1080
Flat
The image looks really flat because the architect insisted on the colors being consistent throughout the image. I am sure you guys hear it all the time,
" why is the side in the shade darker?"
or
“Why isn’t the trim brilliant white, I see a slight blue tint?”
I spent 1/2 day in Photo Shop to make the image look flat 
That’s a pretty nice image. I’d like to see more glints of red in it - aside from my personal opinion, nice work.
Well - I know a guy that does basic 3D then pops everything into Photoshop for a more “artistic” look. He doesn’t touch anything for less than $4,500. Granted, the guy has a unique style.
I personally think that should be well over $1,000 - closer to $1,500 (100/hour.) Pretend that you had employees to feed too.
Sometimes you have a steady, easy-to-work-with client and that’s worth more than a big paycheck so you have to make the occasional exception.
Do you have sample work from the guy you know?
Yeah, but I don’t want to go around telling everyone his name - just like I don’t tell people how much I make. It’s private information.
The reason why I didn’t mention his name to begin with is because I think it’s rude/improper without someone’s direct consent/permission.
It seems very low to me…I usually charge a flat fee x for the first view and 1/3 or 1/2 for extra views of the same scene…I like flat fees because push me to finish my projects earlier, I don’t think you have to be punished for working faster.
Fernando
This conversation has made something very clear to me: I am perhaps the worst businessman who has ever lived. I mean, I knew I was bad but…
I like your post but I think its only one way of looking at your finances. What you are not taking into account is “profit”. Its pretty cut and dry to show an artist in OK and one in NY competing. You need to know your finances, your monthly liabilities and utilities. What you also need is to know what you are making in profit. Everyone has different monthly fixed liabilities but once you get rid of that you need to know how much you can make after you pay your salary and your fixed monthlies. If you cannot charge enough to actually make money on your business it cannot succeed. Bobby may be able to charge $44 per hour and make 50% profit off that. But I may charge $60 an hour and only make 10% profit. Should Bobby charge more just to “keep up”? No not at all. He is winning. I am loosing in that transaction even though I am charging more. I have to work harder and get more clients to keep up with what Bobby is making. Does it make sense for Bobby to charge more? No it doesnt. He will probably get more clients because he can charge less - he has little incentive to keep up with me because the more he charges the more we (him and I) are competing.
Maybe you think that charging more means you make more money but in a competitive market the best value will be the best competitor. Balancing your spread sheet off mine just so it looks like we have a similar product may seem like a good idea but it really may hurt you. Figure out how much you need and how much profit you are making on top of that. Dont assume though that we have the same monthly expenditure. Taking in hourly rates as the comparison is really deceptive. Figure out your profit margin and stick to that. I would never ask an employer in OK to pay a rate to be competitive with an employer in NY. They would laugh at me.
You also have to consider your market, I suppose.
When I lived in Chicago there were a dozen architectural firms in our building and a dozen buildings, with a dozen firms in them; all in a city block. The competition was fierce and the overhead was high. You might be able to charge $10,000 for a still, but it was on a 200 million dollar project.
Here in upper Minnesota I am the only guy with in a 250 mile radius, but the projects are between $100,000 - 1,000,000, which do not support large budgets for illustrations.
I used to charge a % of construction cost. The higher the project cost the lower the % and the % changed with the projects complexity.
I guess it just depends!
