_ Noise Limit Detail Test | 0,01 vs 0,002 [Engine: IM + LC / Render Output: 1360x1360 - region rendered out of a 4000x2826 rend]
| Noise Limit: 0,01 [Quality Preset: High] : 01:21 h
| Noise Limit: 0,002 [Quality Preset: High] : 05:00 h
I don’t see a difference in the both pics other than the render times. These however make the decision vey easy - at least for such an interior - 0,01 is pretty fine.
_ Noise Limit Test | 0,01 vs 0,05 [Engine: IM + LC / Render Output: 1600x1130]
| Noise Limit: 0,05 [Quality Preset: High / Denoiser: OFF] : 00:36 h
| Noise Limit: 0,05 [Quality Preset: High / Denoiser: ON] : 00:37 h
| Noise Limit: 0,01 [Quality Preset: High / Denoiser: OFF] : 00:59 h
Well, a Noise Limit value of 0,05 is a bit too low for such an interior, regardless of using a Denoiser. If the deadline approaches, maybe go for 0,02 (+Denoiser).
BF makes no visual shortcuts in calculation, it’s very correct, only there could be some fine noise, no splotches. Every point at the image is rendered with random shot samples.
Irradiance map is calculated every few pixels only, if the scene allow it within the set parameters. There can be a lot of undersampling and interpolation.
I have seen your last test result now. I can’t see any difference. You could test above 0.01. I played with VfR3 today and was testing between 0.01 and 0.05. Noise limit 0.05 was ok with denoiser enabled.
_ Renderer > Quality Presets Test | Draft vs Low vs Medium vs High vs Very High [Engine: IM + LC / Render Output: 1600x1130]
The Quality Presets are quite nice, imo. They cover a bright range of outcomes, needed for renderings - from a very quick preview to a balanced quality/render time to a good quality endrender.
| 01 _ Draft [Noise: 0,4 / IM | Mina/Max: -3/-3; Subdivs:30; Interpolation:20 / LC | Subdivs:500; Sample Size 0,05] : 00:02 h
| 02 _ Low [Noise: 0,1 / IM | Mina/Max: -3/-2; Subdivs:40; Interpolation:20 / LC | Subdivs:750; Sample Size 0,04] : 00:06 h
| 03 _ Medium [Noise: 0,05 / IM | Mina/Max: -3/-1; Subdivs:50; Interpolation:30 / LC | Subdivs:1000; Sample Size 0,03] : 00:19 h
| 04 _ High [Noise: 0,01 / IM | Mina/Max: -3/-1; Subdivs:70; Interpolation:40 / LC | Subdivs:1500; Sample Size 0,02] : 00:59 h
| 05 _ Very High [Noise: 0,005 / IM | Mina/Max: -3/0; Subdivs:90; Interpolation:50 / LC | Subdivs:2000; Sample Size 0,01] : 05:34 h
It depends on how many hours you have available to render…
In my daily work i can’t wait 10 or more hours for a final render to be done.
My actual configuration is: 1 master pc with i7 4790 + a node with i7 3820 oc at 4,5 ghz.
It depends on how many hours you have available to render
in scenes with difficult lighting, especially with a lot of indirect light and shadow areas, the render time rises up to 8 hours for a 4k image i can’t wait so long…
looking at your renders , maybe you should decrease bump intensity, in the table wood and in the parquet.
After seeing the bump level in the region rends I also thought the same, left it however as it is, for the sake of comparing two 100% same images. But I’d definitely have to lower some values.
And in general - what are your insider/know how tipps about Interior Setup and Do’s/Don’ts?
Found the denoiser, thanks. I now try using Very High Quality. It takes forever, but I’ll wait till the end, so that we have a full list of the Quality Presets. Your custom High Q is next.
One more question - for the posters I have a 5mm glass plate with clear glass material on it. This doesn’t really reflect a lot, on the other hand, nobody really wants very reflective glass on his frames… What’d you do?
Ah, and a last one: What AA-filter and Optimizations would you recommend? As I already wrote somewhere - all pics here are rendered with Lanczos (Size 2). I find Catmull Rom for Exteriors pretty nice, not sure about Interiors though…
Try to keep max trace depth low as possible. Often I render at depth 1 here.
For the posters I would add a glossy layer to the poster material. If there is not enough gloss effect than try higher fresnel frontal (wrong named “parallel”) color default 0 → 10. You need to disable fresnel and add an own fresnel texture at the reflection slot.
Fresnel frontal color means 0 reflection if you look perpendicular on the surface. In the real world you can see reflections in plastic if you look on it. So, a higher value should be more realistic.
Fer told that “use for glossy rays” is on for LC always
Yes, it is always ON in V-Ray 3 for Rhino
I hope we will get it back at the placed where most needed, but I’m not sure the team is reading the bug reports anymore.
Right now we are fixing bug, We may or may not change this in the future. We don’t know right now. Some users like it and other user won’t. So, it will stay like that for now.
thanks for joining! I have three questions for you:
In case you had time to read everything, that was written until now, you have probably seen the bug I came across, using the most recent beta: changing the settings of a duplicated material, also changes the setting of the native one. If you’re not a reference person for this topic, please let me know, where to post about this bug.
Could it be, that fur objects have a problem with materials or maybe receiving shadows? I tried making a furry rug, but the individual strand looks somehow translucent, although the assigned material isn’t…
Do you, as a dev, have some great tipps for interior rendering setup? As there aren’t many tutorials and no ‘textbook’ about V-Ray for Rhino (I even contacted the fellow countrymen in the Sofia headquarters about it), sparing some struggles would be a great thing, imo.
Thanks in advance.
PS_ The Nosie Limit list is now updated with 0,01 vs 0,05. For me 0,05 is too noisy, even with a Denoiser.
In case you had time to read everything, that was written until now, you have probably seen the bug I came across, using the most recent beta: changing the settings of a duplicated material, also changes the setting of the native one. If you’re not a reference person for this topic, please let me know, where to post about this bug.]
I’m unable to reproduce this issue. I duplicated one material and applied to another geometry. Started interactive render and changed: color, reflection color, glossiness, added refraction to the duplicated material and everything worked fine. Can you give me more information about your issue?
Could it be, that fur objects have a problem with materials or maybe receiving shadows? I tried making a furry rug, but the individual strand looks somehow translucent, although the assigned material isn’t…
What kind of rug you are trying to make? What material you are using for the rug? I’m not seeing that behavior in my test.
Do you, as a dev, have some great tipps for interior rendering setup? As there aren’t many tutorials and no ‘textbook’ about V-Ray for Rhino (I even contacted the fellow countrymen in the Sofia headquarters about it), sparing some struggles would be a great thing, imo.
Here is a link where you could find a very nice book of V-Ray. The author also have a V-Ray for Rhino version. Ciro Sannino | Author & V-Ray official instructor
We are also working in a series of V-Ray tutorials based on V-Ray 3 for Rhino. One of those video is related to interior rendering. You could also visit our youtbe channel and find some videos related to interior rendering. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOj8dj8rAJxktIOGXWFJhRw
You could apply the same technique in most of the video into V-Ray for Rhino
Hi fpedrogo and big thanks for the precious infos & links. I guess I’ll buy this book very soon, and as for the bugs - tomorrow I’ll check them once again (maybe I was doing something wrong?) and describe in detail.
The first time I tried rendering using Brute Force in primary, I had to brake it off, as it seemed to last forever. I was however too curious, what the differences in the outcomes of BF+LC and IM+LC would be, so I rendered once again over night. This seems to have been the right decision, as it took almost 9 hours, rendering with BF+LC..
Here the comparison:
_ Render Engine Combination Test | Brute Force+LightCache vs Irradiance Map+Light Cache [Renderer: High / Noise: 0,01, Denoiser:On / Render Output: 1600x1130]
Same scene. Same lighting. Same setup. Different engine approach. Why?
@fpedrogo: Why is there such a huge difference in the render times, without such a difference in the render quality? Am I doing it wrong, or is the combination of BF+LC thought for something else (exterior, jewelery,…)? I’d be very glad to hear your opinion on this. Thanks in advance.
Great, this test points to central question for me too. Your render time are approx. like the times for my 10k renderings. My current project needs approx. 40 renderings in this size.
Often I render images for 300 dpi prints and it doesn’t matter that the IM GI solution is at this high resolution (IM -2), most important is, that geometric details are at full resolution. That’s the advantage of GI interpolation.
I’m very curious for an answer, why BF is so much recommended now. I thought BF would be good for animation, but for animation the IM workflow is recommended.
I often also have to render A3, 300 dpi for print. So you’d recommend a IM Min/Max -3/-2 with higher interpolation - 60 maybe? And the subdivs? And does this refer to interiors or to exteriors also?
Next I’ll check up the issues I had with the fur object and the duplicated mats and later post some results.
Higher undersampling for high res works fine here, for example I render 4000x2500 with -3/-2. The GI ambient occlusion helps to keep the details. Subdivs doesn’t need to be changed by resolution change. If you don’t have splotches at low res than it will finer at large output too. Be care full with interpolation, it kills render time. It’s for blurring the IM against splotches.
Example:
* exterior 50..70 subdivs and interpolation 20 (30 if needed)
* interior 150..200.. subdivs and interpolation 30 (40 if needed and high subdivs doesn’t help so much)
Cool, thanks Micha! Notice how the BF+LC image is brighter and softer ovarall, but also in dark areas? Do you have any idea what to do to achieve something similar with the IM+LC and still having good render times?
I purchased the book fpedrogo suggested and will also bring some knowhow out of it in near future.
BF is brighter? Only in the book shelf or? There you see the more detailed shadow-light situation of the GI. “Softer overall” - I don’t see it at the BF.
