Hello,
yesterday, for fun, I tried to create a simple interior scene.
I know, it isn’t so complex, but with white walls and some glossy objects, it looks interesting and easy to debug.
I wanted to compare the noise level between VRay 3.0 (QMC + LC) and Corona (PT+HD)
My goal was to keep the render time below 10 minutes.
What do you think?
*You can download both .MAX SCENE, optimized for 9 minutes
Corona_8min_40_sec_2012.rar (34.1 KB)
VRay_8min_40sec_2012.rar (34.2 KB)
Without too much fanboyism 
I would justify it by saying that V-Ray is much more biased. There are also some visual differences (reflection on the top teapot for example). And for example, what was the total supersampling in V-Ray and Corona? V-Ray is adaptive. Etc etc etc.
Trying to optimize the Corona scene further sounds like an interesting exercise!
I’d say it’s a good example of someone who actually knows how to set up vray As you can see in the renderstamp, adaptivity is making the difference here (2-64). Subdivisions are set up properly, so vray saves a lot of time that corona is spending on pixels for more or less no visual difference. Imho that has nothing to do with bias.
The images you made here are reflecting my experience: If you really know how to use vrays adaptive dmc sampler you will probably always beat corona in noise levels.
If you use the fixed sampler in Vray and kill the dmc, Corona will be faster in pure path tracing speed (pt + LC/UhdCache) - which obviously doesn’t make any sense.
Maru, no fanboyism in this thread, please, ok?
You can see small differences between reflection and refraction because I didn’t spend time to teaching the different shaders. But, this isn’t the problem.
The problem is in the level of noise. It’s so clear.
You are right, V-Ray is adaptive. But, Choasgroup did a good job with VRay 3.0 and QMC.
Yes, it’s a good exercices. But, how can we optimize Corona? =) We have not so much parameters to “touch”
In VRay we can play with AA, subdivs, noise threshold, etc…
But, I prefer to work with Corona, also if it’s a little bit nosier than VRay. Why?
Because I’m always sure about it’s quality. And I have no to fight hours (yes, hours) to get a better ration quality/time.
DeadClown: I already spoke with Ondra, and he said me your same conclusion.
Rawalanche: no, you are right! I forgot (refractive GI caustics is ON by default). I do it and I’ll post the render.
Also a question. The teapot in the ceiling (Corona Version) seems that flights. There is no shadows. Isn’t strange?
About my scene, I just
VRAY SIDE:
CORONA SIDE:
I didn’t take care about color sky (no influences on noise level)
I forgot to enabled refractive caustics on glass material to better match the VRay render. But, I think, the impact on noise level is not so much.
I didn’t want to delete the ground floor, because, usually, in real project, I have it.
With your nice test we can see how a Corona Bucket render and his adaptability can help a lot Corona.
Here is my attempt. I don’t have V-Ray so I just checked how long it takes to render the original Corona scene “as is” - 07:08 and then tried to optimize the settings.
I did the following:
-disabled render elements - didn’t seem to change time
-set pass limit to 50 (do we really need 110 here?), MSI to 10, and adjusted gi/aa and lsm to have similar noise level - 05:09
-set pass limit even lower - 32 - and adjusted gi/aa and lsm again - 04:15
-set MSI back to 20 to see what time difference it causes (because it clearly changes appearance) - 04:28
Maybe there is slightly more noise than before so it would require a bit more GI samples, but a jump from 7 to 4,5min is pretty big, right? If you are using adaptive supersampling in V-ray (2-64), then why set it in Corona to 110 passes? Also, I guess you didn’t use default settings in Vray, and you used defaults in Corona - this is a bit unfair. I was kidding about the fanboyism in the first post, but please correct me if I’m making some stupid mistakes here.
FFFFFFFUUUUU, sorry. This is because I don’t have Vray and the camera loaded upside-down, I had to create a new on in the same place and rotate it. Could some good soul re-save the scene with a standard camera?
Sorry to say that but this is exactly why those threads always become useless after a short while.
If you’d really want to compare Vrays 64 max to corona you’d have to increase corona passes to 4096 - vray’s is subdivision, thus 62^2 = 4096 passes (reachable maximum). So much for fair comparison. Vray’s strength is adaptivity, and none of the “possible” improvements posted here to make corona faster are actually making any sense if you want to compare it 1:1 (whatever this should be).
If you really want to make corona so much faster, decrease the albedo to a bare minimum and crank up the exposure, wouldn’t make the discussion much worse…
And btw, using defaults are useful for a settings-limited renderer like corona but you cannot expect anyone to use vray defaults (for reasons vray users know).
DeadClown, this thread is just for fun.
I don’ t want to say “VRay is best, Corona is the best etc…”.
Just share some experiences.
We know that Corona has no adaptivity.
So, with the actual version of corona, I would liked to see what we can do.
for example, Rawalanche suggestion is a good idea (Bucket mode) =)
My point was, that if you devoted some time to find optimal settings in vray, then why not do the same with corona instead of using defaults?
Well, I didn’t want to be the party pooper here, so sorry if that was the case. I simply forget every time that I should probably keep out of discussions like that. My problem was that I had the impression that everyone tried to get an image matching the vray one as close as possible (better speed, less noise) when it would actually be a lot easier to render a corona image with “best possible settings” and let someone do a highly optimized vray version. You could easily squeeze some minutes out of the vray one (still using Bf etc)
But as I said, I should keep myself out of those things
Ok, I was able to have the same rendering time 11min 40 sec in Corona, in Bucket mode (16, 16 0.03)
Nothing changed. In Corona everything is as before: I have a plane outside and the glasses have caustics ON.
VRay has less noise and the differences, in Corona, bethween progressive and bucket isn’t so big.
Now, the shadows under the torus are black, and not green, like in VRay.
PS: I think, if we reduce MSI from 20 to 10, I’m able to remove a little bit of noise, as Rawalanche did.
What is the conclusion, Is corona really faster than VRAY?
In my opinion, if you use VRay in IM+LC, yes (obviously)
if you use QMC+LC, it depends.
In this simple example my answer is YES. But, as I wrote, it’s simple.
It’s easy to tweak one light and two shaders to obtain the best rendering time and less noise as possible.
For this scene, I did many tests to get the best ratio between anti-aliasing, subdivision, noise. I needed to look at render elements to understand better the noise etc…
But, if you have complex scene, with +50 shaders, +30 lights, you have to spend hours to understand why you had some noise in some areas, or why a single bucket stays 10 minutes in the same place, etc…
With Corona, you hadn’t do that, never. Just work, click render and you are 99% sure about the final result.
I prefer to work to create a new location, instead t se correctly a renderer, by doing 30 test-render
And, often, it’s faster than V-Ray (often because, at the end, you are tired to make 20 render test or you don’t understand well how to solve some trouble).
In my eyes, a comparison like this misses the point. Are we going to applaud a 10 seconds render that lacks everything that makes it visually pleasant? The quality differences here are quite noticeable and range from subtle shades in the shadows to quite big differences in reflections and refractions, the result from Corona is just more pleasant even in a simple example like this.
I would grant Corona 5 minutes more solely for the fact that it will have more ‘depth’. Since these things are so subtle they can’t really be expressed in numbers and render times…
For me it’s something else that’s impressive here: to see how much adaptive sampling can help to get rid of noise. Then again, a real-world camera will almost always show more noise.
I agree with you pokoy: adaptive sampling is very important!
In addition, each one will read this test as he wants.
There are users who want as little noise as possible, others users need “deeper” rendering, even with some noise.
There are those who, instead, needs a quick setup without too much trouble, regardless of noise and depth.
“a real-world camera will almost always show more noise”
Oh come on.. what camera, what you are shooting, what’s the purpose… more noise than what??
Do you want to compare your renders to a smartphone photography or to a phase one or hasselblad photo with a serious lens and ligting setup all done by a pro?
I don’t care about some of the noise going on… but seriously… what do you mean by a real-world camera with noise?? I’m all good with a noise levels of a ISO 100 or less done with a pro lens and at a reasonable shutter speed but none of the renders in this thread don’t match that quality…
Now I don’t want to bitch about quality and comparing stuff to vray cause it doesn’t make sense unless corona has some adaptivity going on and primary GI biased solution for fast lighting previews and handles caustics possibly dispersion well also a dedicated skin shader and hair shading would be nice and much more that is not just present yet in corona..
Corona does goddamn good job in what it does and I hope it will get even better and I personally don’t want it to be another vray I want something easier to use and much better possibly…
I get that there is possibility to compare under certain circumstances, controlled conditions these two renderers but really.. If I would need a character rendering corona is outta game no matter the speed… and again.. If I need fast setup but don’t care about times too much corona is my tool of choice..
Until two renderers aren’t capable of the same things we are not comparing apples to apples sorry… it’s like with arnold, arnold doesn’t have cached GI solutions.. how can you compare it with interior renderings if it’s all brute force?? Why would you even compare PT+PT in corona and arnold when you can use PT+UHD in corona?
When we are talking archviz, vray is still a beast and you can rely on it! Corona is still a newcommer but very capable one… For me the selling point is ease of use and reasonable rendertimes…
