.vrscene export incredibly slow

[Macker]

Hi all,

I'm trying to export an animation to vray cloud, but the scene export is very, very slow - though it hasn't frozen or anything.

Is this normal?

Thanks,
Chris

[Macker]

I realise I had the same issue last year, on a different project.

https://forums.chaos.com/forum/chaos...oud-super-slow

How come this process is so slow/hasn't improved?

[vladie]

Hi Chris,

Sorry for the problems you stumble upon again. Recently we did improvements for the .vrscene format that we use to export and submit to Chaos Cloud. The improvements are part of the Update 1 release for V-Ray 6 (V-Ray 6.1) for 3ds Max. If it's convenient for you, can you please update to the latest V-Ray version and give the new format a try? It introduces a number of improvements and in some cases the export process could be improved as well.

Regardless of whether you will try or not the latest V-Ray version, can you please share an example scene which will help us reproduce the slow export you are experiencing? Together with the V-Ray for 3ds Max team we will investigate it for any issues. I saw that last time you asked me whether to create a support ticket. I'm sorry I forgot to answer. And yes, this will be the best way to share the example scene with us.

Many thanks,
Vladie

[Macker]

Hi Vladie,

I've installed latest version but the issue persists. Each frame takes about 1 min 20 secs to generate - which is going to take about 8 hours to export a single short (375 frame) camera path... Of which I have about 10 paths (some of them longer).

I'm uploading it to wetransfer right now. Are you able to open a support ticket, or are you happy to resolve it here? I was hoping to send all of this out for rendering before the end of the week.

Many thanks,
Chris

[vladie]

Hi Chris,

We continued our communication in the support ticket. But I'll post its resolution here when ready for the sake of the other users reading this.

Thanks,
Vladie

[Macker]

Hi Vladie,

I don't think we really reached a resolution other than "there are a lot of forest pro objects".

It seems absolutely insane that chaos cloud exporter exports every single frame as an individual thing - ie exports every forest pack object for every frame, even though nothing has changed from one frame to the next. I don't recall having this problem when I used the service several years ago.

I honestly think I'm going to have to submit this to rebusfarm or similar, which is a shame.

[Edit] By enabling the camera view on forest pro objects so that they only render what's in frame, I've managed to get the submission time for a 375 frame camera path down to *drum roll*... 3.5 hours. That's 3.5 hours to submit a single short camera path - of which I have around 12 to submit, some of them around 600 frames. That's *entire days* spent trying to submit jobs.

It's just totally unacceptable.

[vladie]

Hi Chris,

Yes, you are right and I understand you. The slow export is a problem and is not acceptable. I follow the ticket but it's still open, that's why I haven't posted a resolution here. Just a clarification, for your information, it's not a Chaos Cloud exporter but it is the V-Ray exporter which exports the scene. If you manually export it, it will be the same time and file. Not that it solves the problem or makes a difference. You are correct to think of it as a Chaos Cloud problem as it is part of our workflow and affects you, our customers.

In connection with the V-Ray exporter there is one option which might be explored and could possibly be a solution as well. I've been investigating several solutions in your case as well. Let me list them, even though I'm waiting for more details so they could change. But I know we are pressed by time:

1. I saw you are using V-Ray 5.2 in Chaos Cloud. So I guess you reverted or you tried V-Ray 6.1 only for a local export. I should have explained it better but the new format that we have implemented and released with 6.1 works only if you submit your scene to Chaos Cloud from the direct integration of Chaos Cloud with V-Ray for 3ds Max. That is if you use the Cloud button from the V-Ray ribbon in 3ds Max. Please let me know if you can try it and let me know how it works for you.
2. Is it an option to submit your animation in smaller batches of frames? I know that the overall time will be similar but some parts of the workflow will be faster.
   • E.g. once you upload an asset, it will be already in Chaos Cloud, so it won't be uploaded again next time it is used in a frame - the upload times will get faster. The same goes for parts of the scene itself.
   • At the same time the scene which will be loaded before a frame rendering starts will be smaller. Hence the scene load time will be faster and the whole time spent for a frame will be less. You will get frames rendered faster.
3. The final option that I'm looking into is what it will take you to substitute the Forest Pack plugin with Chaos Scatter as the latter creates smaller export files when exported by V-Ray. I'm still waiting for final clarifications and confirmation by the team behind its development but here is what I know till now. Hope it's an option for you to try as well:
   • Chaos Scatter has all basic features which are usually needed from a scatter tool, and is also used in Chaos Cosmos presets. But Forest Pack still offers a lot more, e.g. source object groups, etc.
   • It is worth noting that iToo have their own library and it is not a straight-forward process to convert a scene using its assets to Chaos Scatter. There are differences in how the shading is applied which will need more time to convert if you do it manually in a big heavy scene.
   • I'm still waiting for details what to do in regards of cameras and trees. I'll add them here when I have them.

Please let me know if any of these options help and you could try them. We'll be assisting you. And definitely we'll follow up with you in the support ticket as well. I'm sorry for the delay there. It's a national holiday here which creates delays in all our answers. Not that it should be an excuse from our side.

Bests,
Vladie

[Macker]

Hi Vladie,

Many thanks for your reply. I'd like to just say my frustration is with the software/process, and not you guys helping me which I really, really appreciate.

[*]I saw you are using V-Ray 5.2 in Chaos Cloud. So I guess you reverted or you tried V-Ray 6.1 only for a local export.

???

I've upgraded to VRay 6.1, and am trying all of this on 6.1. (forum won't let me upload a screenshot for some reason) - but I promise you I'm on the latest version.

I haven't actually managed to upload ANY of this to chaos cloud yet - are you sure you're not looking at an old job (2021?). This project is an update of the old job that was rendered on the cloud a few years back - which we didn't have these issues with (at least I don't think we did).

Is it an option to submit your animation in smaller batches of frames? I know that the overall time will be similar but some parts of the workflow will be faster.

I could - but the issue isn't the upload speed. The issue is the .vrscene export "creating frame" part.


Is there a reason I've never had this issue with Chaos Cloud before? It's not like this is the first time I've submitted this project, or a project with lots of Forest Pro objects. Does Chaos Scatter offer the same "edge mode" that Forest Pro offers? If so, I could swap the grass etc and see if that makes a difference?

Many thanks,
Chris

[Macker]

3.5 hours later it's reached 100% and crashed.

This is utterly ridiculous.

[vladie]

Hi Chris,

My bad in regards of the V-Ray version you use. Maybe I've been reviewing an old job. Then it could be a bug with the new file format that we use to export and submit to Chaos Cloud in V-Ray 6.1. Can you please try to export the scene manually through the V-Ray Exporter from the V-Ray menu? It will export the scene in the old file format. My idea is to see whether it is from the new file format or it is the same with old one. If the export process runs fine, you can submit the exported .vrscene through the standalone interface of the Chaos Cloud client app.

With respect to the "edge mode" feature, I haven't tried it but there's a forum topic about it. Looks like Chaos Scatter has this feature as well. Please check it and let me know if it doesn't work for you.

Thanks,
Vladie

[vladie]

Hi Chris,

I'm posting here the latest developments in regards of the case for the sake of the rest of the forum users.

We have identified that currently the export process can't be faster and produce smaller scenes. Substituting Forest Pack with Chaos Scatter will have very little and insufficient effect for now. We have plans to improve the Chaos Scatter plugin which will decrease the size of the exported files. The plans are in the current roadmap and I'll keep you updated when it can be tried.

With respect to the idea to support and run 3ds Max instances in Chaos Cloud which will speed up the overall process by removing the export process from the equation, we have considered it. But this solution brings additional complications as supporting the exact users setup in terms of exact versions and plugins. Also - licensing for these plugins, besides 3ds Max and the OS, and proper packaging of the scene and its asset when submitting to the cloud (this might complicate the UX). There are more details and dependencies which have to be changed and I might be missing now. E.g. the live preview, etc. So it's not a clear win, and I'm not mentioning the price.

Sorry I don't have good news. But said all this, I can confirm we'll continue in direction of speeding up the export process and reducing the exported files size. We'll keep you updated about our progress in that field.

Thanks,
Vladie