Anybody interested in sharing render fees?

[alkonst]

As I can see your firms pay good money (as I think). I would like to work with you if you offer anything for me.
Here are my works
http://www.chaoticdimension.com/foru...?p=52716#52716

or here
http://alkonaft.dezigner.ru/Alex_Konst_may.jpg
http://alkonaft.dezigner.ru/Alex_Konst_jan.jpg
http://alkonaft.dezigner.ru/Alex_Konst_jan_top.jpg
http://alkonaft.dezigner.ru/Alex_Konst_feb.jpg
http://alkonaft.dezigner.ru/Alex_Konst_jan1.jpg
http://alkonaft.dezigner.ru/Alex_Konst_jan2.jpg [/url]

[flipside]

Yes that's indeed a problem. As 3D gets 'easier' for everyone, more and more people start to learn it. Every architect or designer will learn some kind of 3D software in school now, so the need to hire external people for viz will dissappear as they can do it themselve.

[plastic_]

you really think it gets easier?
i dont feel so. a few years ago i had nothing more to do than collecting some textures, placing some lights, turn on raytracing for some materials, hit render.
there wasn't really anything more one could do in architectual visualisation, except with lightscape.
now i fight with photon maps, random distribution samples, strange monte carlo degrading options, hemispheric subdivisions and whatever nonsense
i think it's great fun, but most people are scared off by such things.
i think 3d is never going to become easy to use for everybody, because the expectations are much higher than a few years ago, and they rise constantly. only dedicated geeks like us will be able to stay on the cutting edge.

[flipside]

Easier is not the word I was looking for, I ment more accessible maybe. A few years ago if you wanted GI like renders, you had to place lights everywhere, think about how light would bounce in a room. Now with GI the computer does this for you. Imagine that right now you would have a PC that's 1000 times faster, the need for IR maps and photons would go away because you could just use direct computation. Of course there will come other stuff that needs more proc power. But I think if you look at the evolution of 3D that you can say that relatively it gets more accessible and easier. In the beginning only programmers could do 3d, now every student that gets a few lessons in rhino for example can do incredible stuff! This certainly has an influence on the cost of rendering and modeling.

[jedisalf]

Heres the results of the 2004 ARCHITECTURAL VISUALIZATION SURVEY by CGARCHITECT, some of the members in here alreayd know it, since we participated, some other dont, so download it and take a look at the results, so you can see where the market is going.

http://www.cgarchitect.com/survey/re...2004survey.zip

[ultra]

many in the thread have suggested to look for work abroad......how exactly do you do that ?
It might be easyer in Europe, since crossing borders is not much a problem and the distances are relatively short, but travel to promote yourself ?
Make a website ??

did you mean across the states in the US ?

crossing the ocean ? china ?

could anyone please elaborate on the idea ?

[shytigercp]

RE

Has anyone here consulted? I have done consulting to 2 arch firms who have "intermediate" 3d users 1 or 2 years out of school. I did this after hours and charged through the roof at their place of business. I didn't advertise...just know people in the arch industry and go to AIA or ETC. functions.

[cocolas]

I agree with flipside on the accessability of 3d......we're now gonna switch to ADT (architectural desktop) for our design/drafting software for the architecture side of the firm I work for....all of a sudden everyone - arhcitects/drafts will be able to get 3d and 2d out of that at the same time.....sure no even close to the quality one gets w/ max+vray...but a lot of architects will be happy even with that........


paul.

[matija]

for finishing job I don't need so good rendering I did some jobs with Vue d'esprit 4 to try cheaper software it only $ 199 planing departmant were pleased with it. I finished job for one day(houses modeled in Auto-Cad) without any problem just place sun light,textures and click.anybody can do all need to have modeling skils.

today architects just got software like Vue and learn modeling with somw cheap software and you have picture in just a day.
it easier than ever to have no so bad picture and wath going to be in 5 years????????

[cocolas]

it easier than ever to have no so bad picture and wath going to be in 5 years????????

that's my point...probably in five years all this specialized 3d will be integrated with the design process......

paul.

[matija]

any way I have big respect for good modelers I did a'lot modeling for big studios( auto-cad,ADT,rino this is my big skils.I.'m learning REVIT those days this is my future gols ) nobody asked me for rendering anything.
this can tell me a'lot about 3D job.
rendering will be easier and easier with years anyway if you make one good set-up in viz or max and just go with it over and over and do not tell me rendering is so hard.all you need to make good set-up one time and go .....

[dusan]

I really admire your fees, but there are some things ill never understand. The first one being hourly rates, i mean, should we all go placing bombs in the offices of ArchiCad developers, or chaotic dimension for making such a fast renderer? And does it mean that you should work twice as fast for half the money?

Then "per rendering" fees, its ok if you need only one exterior shot of a house, you can show only two sides of it and pass with less work, but not that much. Does this mean that you should pray to god, or develop some scheme how to persuade your clients that they need more than one render?
Or just say, if you are charging $1500 per render, "The first render is $4000, but you can get the additional two for just $500".
I mean if three renders are worth $4500, and they consist of one modeling, one lighting setup, one material setup, arent you loosing money if you charche $1500 for 3/4 modeling, one lighting setup, one material setup.

And actually i do think it arch viz is getting easier, for instance, compare modeling for lightscape with modeling in ArchiCad, or checkout those realtime photon and radiosity rendering algorithms. Imagine in a couple of years when computers become 3 times faster, and those algorithms perfected. You will probably have "arch Brazil" "Arch Vray" with thousands of predefined materials suitable for every need, you will have a lightscapeish wizard where you will just choose windows and openings, and voila a photorealistic render in a flash. Talk about the "make me an artist" or "do all the work for me" buttons...

[Miguel]

And this brings to this topic http://www.chaoticdimension.com/foru...pic.php?t=6787

About pricing, here in Mexico is a little tough, if not for really few big projects, like the ones that I posted here http://www.chaoticdimension.com/foru...pic.php?t=6887 thait is a 24 story building, most of the time I'm struggling with people that wants their renderings for about 250usd each, so there is no big bussiness here at all, I mean you need to get a couple of big fishes who are willing to spend a lot in this kind of depressed economy.

Miguel.

[matija]

miguel I'm in California one guy here working for $750 one house pr????
I'm hapy that my 90% jobs is design and drafting plans for permit. 3D job going to be part of arhitectural services learn cad and drafting if you wont to be in this job in the future

[@krembo99]

Small thought

Why don't you charge per hour ? like any reasonable profession ??

that would save all calculations and estimations...

There are even scripts to go with max who tells you exactly how much time you worked on each file, and even print a txt report for you, with dates and all, and attach it to the max file itself !!

I charge about 50 euros per hour ..
all i have to do is estimate (by knowing myself and how i work, and understanding the project) how much time will i put into it ...
That's all ...

and about the architects not needing it - this is false.
I am ann architect, and i am working only with architects.. it might be true that the smallest architects will try do it themselves, but no real architect will take the time nor the effort to do 3d all day, like they have nothing else to do .....
even in the past , in every architecture office there were two - three render guys, manual render with pencil acquarel and stuff....
Nothing will change.
What i do agree is that fees will go down, as competition rises , like with web sites construction...
but that's life ...