Standing out in interior archviz - how to compete?

[MANUEL_MOUSIOL]

So I have this client who I'll be doing a lot of interior archviz / furniture visualisations for one year while helping to build his cgi department .After that I hope I can work with him as a supervisor. What concerns me is that while he is getting started in this CGI business, he's getting a lot info and questions concerning cheap prices. The furniture industry in Germany has long been using cheaper work forces in Eastern Europe to dump prices and get higher revenue .These companies are also tryingt out CGI artists in Ukraine, Russia and Poland to get their images cheaper. A full interior, including modelling the furniture is like 200€, they told him. Now they want to only pay these rates here in Germany as well . but even companies like Otto are offering a full interior and various furniture models in studio lighting on white background for as low as 400€ (probably provided you give them cad data).
now I have been working in the advertising industry for around ten years and even though rates are dropping, these rates are crazy to me.

I was pondering what he can do to differentiate himself from the lot, to give a better, more exclusive service and make his clients even happier but also be able to get paid higher rates .

But, I can't think of much to be honest....
how would you guys approach this?
Or what are your general thoughts?

Would love to pick your brains.

[PIXELBOX_SRO]

I guess the only thing one can do is absolutely persuade them with quality, delivery on time and the amount one can output steadily. It bugs me Autodesk os doing nothing about sw piracy. Otherwise these guys would not be able to sell their stuff so cheap. The low rates are insane. I would probably focus on different companies than Otto ) hey, we want to start selling to Germany and be sure we gonna approach them with fair competitive prices, no dumping bollocks

[glorybound]

It'll be sad when the good artists leave the industry and then all you'll get is cheap crap. I did a little R&D last year and I hired a few people on several freelance sites. I gave them easy projects and nothing I got I was able to use, even as a starting point. If people want a cheap rendering, they'll find someone to do it for almost nothing. I think people will still pay for quality, so you have to simply be better. Also, you have to be someone that they want to work with.

[glorybound]

I did a lot of work in Nashville TN last year and when people saw my work, they found out who did it and they reached out to me. Several times, right before I was ready to close the deal, they found out that I wasn't local and backed out. This is good because people still care and they want to keep things local. Not just in the same city, but most want to keep it in the same country. I think you have to play on your strength and convincing people to keep it local might be a good strength. Developers, on the other hand, don't care and all they see is the cost. When it's a developer reaching out to me I don't put much effort into it. I spent a year trying to get a project of a cool house. Literally, a year! They finally sent me the PDF's last week and after I sent a tentative quote, which was lower than I usually would quote, they said that they decided to get it done cheap overseas. They said that they were more concerned with cost over quality. You'll always have those people and personally, I don't even want to try to compete like that.

[M.Max]

I totally agree with Martin and Bobby ..the prices that you have mentioned are crazy and it is only getting worse, unfortunately
I've worked in a company that takes 2 to 3 times more than the others would take in the same country and there were mainly 3 things that helped:
1-Networking and knowing the right people ..the owner was really good at this and if you have this you can ignore the rest
2-Communication: That's a very important point as it makes the difference between ( working" For" or working "With") helping the designer/architect by making suggestions that will push the design further ..it might be simple like changing color or furniture but the client will receive it as You care..we had many clients that tried the "robots"/overseas services and come to us to get real communication .
3-Looking outside the saturated market of Archviz, take events, Exhibitions, and festivals as examples. these guys pay well and don't expect much in terms of details and quality ..Saudi Arabia government do a ton of those and I remember working on almost 50 projects every year when I worked there ..but sure getting the first chance is something that might be hard.
fun fact: I know French and german studios that we had to compete with to take some big projects.. Saudi Princes as we say it in Arabic (بيحبو العيون الملونين / like colored eyes ) that mean they prefer to work with foreigners to look more classy ..so your chances are actually high .

I can add the following too from my experience :
3-Creativity and unique style ..it is hard and personally still working on it but most of the famous artists /companies have their own style (mood /cameras/colors/story..etc) that clients (or at least some of them ) will appreciate and come for.
4-Creative animations ..those who work for very low prices most probably can't afford to render animations online and building good and fast render farm won't be easy for them ...even tho Lumion now start competing in that area but it is still not there -yet-.
personally, after 5 years working as CG supervisor, I've left last year and started doing my thing, mostly away from the usual Archviz like TV idents /products /events ..etc sometime with others as i'm not that good with FX/character animation for example .in general the market is a bit better here but sure you still need to compete with the quality as -thankfully -it is a more demanding domain.

sorry for the wall of text! but this is interesting topic and I would like to hear what others would say about it too

[glorybound]

I also think phone calls work. They want to hear your voice and they want to know your story.

One thing I wanted to do this year is actually cost my time. Like all new years resolutions, that lasted about 12 days, but it showed me how much time I actually spend on my work. Per hour, I would make more money working at Walmart.

Back to being good, if it isn't your passion to do good work, you'll be a bottom feeder and everyone will know it and treat you like one. The other day I read a quote that said. "if you are not often told you are too expensive you don't charge enough".

[MANUEL_MOUSIOL]

Funny thing is that Otto is doing a really good job:
https://www.otto.de/newsroom/de/tech...revolutioniert
But they built a huge departement for that to serve themselves and their customers and it is said that they invested 2.6 Million Euro into that. So go and figure - it is like a factory!
And the renderings I saw from Poland are not bad either!
So sure, there can always something be done about quality, but if the clients are content with the ones that offer good quality for a cheaper price and they dont see the benifit of paying more for even better quality, they are well served. And more expensive artists loose out.
Not so sure about having your own style, although it is a valid point.
In the end one has to look for other clients that are willing to pay for that style - probably wont be the manufacturers of furniture though, not the most of them at least.

Finding the right clients, building trust through positive and productive communication is always the best way to have steady business and good rates, and yes, as M.Max said, you have to know the right people for that. It becomes like finding a needle in a haystack nowadays, I have the feeling.
M.Max what do you mean with events, exhibitions and festivals? What kind of work did you for these ventures?

I am also thinking along the lines of offering more, instead of just pictures. As you mentioned, M.Max animations is a way to get higher rates, if well done. So if you can package an interiour into different images and animations alongside with variations, the client gets more and we get more.... if they need it. Offering web applications with unreal or unity would also be good, but I never went that path and probably would need help, because I think it is too much to learn to do it all by mself.

glorybound , for sure the sentence "if you are not often told you are too expensive you don't charge enough" is right. or at least they should be saying "you are expensive, but it is worth it!". But as I said, when they are content with cheaper but good work, it is hard to sell them going the extra mile.
BTW, I tested out an indian company for furniture modelling and it was horrible. Had to go back and forth a few times until I finally had a model, that I could work on and finish until I got the quality that they promised in the first place. But the sad truth is that there are a lot of good CG Artists in countries where the standard of living isnt as high and so they can afford to offer lower rates.
As CGI becomes more and more common, we have to find more "luxurious" brands to feed us. But I feel like I have to give more too!

I have to say though, also from your answers, I am still a little lost. When offering higher quality and flexibility and good communication isnt enough, there is not much that can be done, except to find different clients - which I feel is a real shame. But you also wouldnt want to try to sell Champagne to a guy who is content with cheap sparkling wine....

[M.Max]

When offering higher quality and flexibility and good communication isn't enough, there is not much that can be done, except to find different clients.

unfortunately, that's pretty much it .the another day I found someone who posted the price for every project in his portfolio (is that common now ?! )and the quality was Really good at a very low price!
so the quality is needed but not enough at all to compete nowadays.
Thankfully I have steady work now and most of the time I outsource modeling and even texturing to some friends, so I just focus on rendering but I can see the problem when I eventually will start my own studio and things getting more serious.

what do you mean with events, exhibitions and festivals? What kind of work did you for these ventures?

I can't share the renders in public so I will send you some samples ..nothing fancy as I said but just a few tables and screens in most cases and mainly to show how things will be arranged.

[glorybound]

Can you share the site with the posted prices? No, it isn’t common and it's not keep business.

[glorybound]

I think good things are coming. Yes, I have people not return an email after I send a tentative quote, which is just rude, but I also get the other side. It is just as common for people to come to me saying that their in-house people are okay and their cheap overseas people are not capable of much, so they need someone who can produce higher quality images of special projects. I have had several small house builders hire me because they want better than they see on others websites. Again, if you are better than the others, people will pay. What I usually get is that I am substantially more money (I am not sure what that means), but they hire me anyway, I think it is a good place to be. The in-house okay people probably get paid more than the best of us get, so maybe they are the ones to worry a little. Freelancing will be more common in the years to come and newer people who lose their jobs will be a decade behind us in running a small business successfully. Chin Up, it’s not all bad!

You known my work, so I would be curious to see how much you think I should be charging. What's substantially more expensive? I'm sorry for the hijack.

[MANUEL_MOUSIOL]

prices in a portfolio? sounds like he is trying to kill his own business... every project is different. sure, if you want exactly the same maybe then the price displayed is of interest, but that is never going to happen.

glorybound your work over the years is becoming better and better, it is impressive to see the improvements! I dont know where your starting point is but I guess building everything from blueprints? for the exteriors I think a price range from 1000-2000€ is not too much. I never did something like this, so I am unsure about the workload. But I guess thats where my starting point would be, depending on the client and workload. The interiors are probably a little easier with alot of ready available assets, but yours are also very detailed with mostly broad perspective. So starting from 650€-800€ would sound right.
As I said, I am new to this field, so please excuse me if I am totally in the wrong ballpark. Would be nice to know what you are actually charging, then

[glorybound]

I think you are spot on with price, for what you might expect, but that is changing fast. On the exteriors, if I quote $600 for one view on a normal sized home I get that I am substantially more expensive. I was getting between $900 - $1200 the last couple of years. For mid-sized commercial, anything over $1000 is scoffed at a lot of the times. For interiors, kitchens are usually the most expensive and again, you are spot on, but again, people don't want to spend more than a couple hundred for an interior.

I had someone reach out the other day for a commercial project. I tentatively quoted $500 for a kitchen and down from there for most other spaces and she gulped and I never heard from her again. Also last week I had someone with a larger 4 story apartment complex and I tentatively quoted $1200. I followed up asking if they needed a formal quote and he replied, "I would never except an insane quote like that!"

A few years ago I worked for a design/build firm and I got 2-3 emails a week from render companies from China, all marketing $200 renderings. One thing that was obvious was, almost every company used the same images and all had different company names; they are simply flooding the market with cheap crap.

However, onward and upward. I am still busy year around with good paying projects and I am trusting that it will continue. I guess that there is a market for all levels of quality and I wouldn't want to work with bottom feeders anyway. My rule of thumb is if they complain about the cost they'll be more difficult to please, anyway.

[eligiusz]

How many images do You deliver for 900-1200 ? Is it usually just front/back ? Or do You mean per image ?

[glorybound]

For me, it is for one view and then I discount other views. So, if the front is $900 the back might be $300.

[flino2004]

., I don't do a lot of visualization but when I do I charge $1800 minimum for the 1st view and $1000 per additional view of the same area.

some years ago i had a very good client I was making 250K per year only for renderings ....The 1st year I made 50K then 90K, 140K, 200K and 250K with them but I knew that one day 250K is going to end because I was too expensive, for that money they could hire 5 guys working full time.