Standing out in interior archviz - how to compete?

[glorybound]

If we refer to global prices, $500 per view is still cheap... I design houses, but I do some consultation in design to architectural firms, and I have seen what they are paying for renderings; They are willing to pay around 1,200 per view because they charge to the client 2X.( 2400 per view.). If the firm just bills what the rendering cost I have seen 2K per view.

That is good to know. I think because I touch a lot of potential projects per month I see a wide gamut of client types. Last week I had a guy scoff at not quoting him $250 for a large apartment complex, $250 for interiors and $250 for an exterior. He literally sent me an email telling me what he expects me to charge him. He send his plans, expecting me to send him a quote for what he asked for.

[glorybound]

If the firm just bills what the rendering cost I have seen 2K per view.

That is still difficult because I have no clue what is required. Is it large homes, mid-rises, or high-rises? I see these flat fees being tossed around and that seems what people expect nowadays, but that just doesn't work.

[flino2004]

2k per view is enough to balancing the project regarless of the size... what you send on top of the flat fee is the minimum views for that specific project... sometimes is you don’t say anything and sometimes because of the scale let’s say 3-4 views or more.
Another reason to me for flat fees is your client (Architects) can offer to the final client the renderings knowing more/less how much is going to be.... in my experience as designer sometimes those decisions are approved during meetings when you are talking to the big boss and he is not always available for all the meetings

[glorybound]

I just came across two examples why a fixed per image price doesn't work.

First, I quoted a project, based on the drawings he sent me. Like most, I was very liberal on his revisions, finished the project and he went silent for about a month. He recently came back with these elaborate swimming pool, outside kitchen, bbq pit sketches and expected me to add it to his scene. I told him that I will need to get paid for the work already completed and I'll quote him what'll take to add all this new information. He told me that I quoted him two outside renderings! The per-image flat fee model doesn't work.

The second recent example is I had a phone conversation yesterday and we talked price. She wanted some interiors, so I gave her a price based on her plans and elevations. She said, "okay, send me the quote and I'll send you all the furniture and fixtures I want". No, it isn't a windfall for you and the interior image doesn't include everything you want to stuff into it for the same price.

Unless you work for the same person often and each project is similar, the flat fee doesn't work. I have a home builder that I give a flat fee, but all of his houses are very similar. If you make a living moving dirt? Would you charge one flat fee? What happens when it is a mountain of dirt?

Just my two cents.

[glorybound]

[MANUEL_MOUSIOL]

That is brilliant! CGI artists are dirt movers

[flino2004]

I just came across two examples why a fixed per image price doesn't work.

First, I quoted a project, based on the drawings he sent me. Like most, I was very liberal on his revisions, finished the project and he went silent for about a month. He recently came back with these elaborate swimming pool, outside kitchen, bbq pit sketches and expected me to add it to his scene. I told him that I will need to get paid for the work already completed and I'll quote him what'll take to add all this new information. He told me that I quoted him two outside renderings! The per-image flat fee model doesn't work.

The second recent example is I had a phone conversation yesterday and we talked price. She wanted some interiors, so I gave her a price based on her plans and elevations. She said, "okay, send me the quote and I'll send you all the furniture and fixtures I want". No, it isn't a windfall for you and the interior image doesn't include everything you want to stuff into it for the same price.

Unless you work for the same person often and each project is similar, the flat fee doesn't work. I have a home builder that I give a flat fee, but all of his houses are very similar. If you make a living moving dirt? Would you charge one flat fee? What happens when it is a mountain of dirt?

Just my two cents.

price per view, changes and options are additional per hour base, furniture pieces are from stock 3D models from libraries, custom furniture is additional. ....you have to be clear, that it.
when they sent me a project I sent the minimum views to make sense.....I charge minimum 1,800 for the 1st view and sometimes 2,200......visualization is not my business so I'm not going to work on something to waste my time and the people I quoted those numberS almost never said to me " it's too expensive".
.

[glorybound]

To say $600 for a kitchen will get you in trouble all the time (or any type of space). You have big kitchens, small kitchens, big and small fancy kitchens, and big and small plain kitchens. From my business readings, you never give average prices; always quote each project because each project is unique. We might be talking semantics. Yes, you quote per image, but not until you see the project. I got in trouble once for quoting several images and then he asked me to quote an average. It went like this.

Front view = $1400
Back view = $480
Kitchen = $600
Living = $400

The average is $720 an image, so after his meeting, he came back with, they decided on one front image view for $720. I prefer to just give a break down of each view. One kitchen might be $600 on one job and another kitchen, on a different job might be $1200.

[flino2004]

Those prices are low...if you are too close to the cheap ones that client is always going to bargain because he thinks you could match it and you are going to have that type of client that in any moment they could switch to the cheap ones... The people I do visualization for are old clients of mine, ex-employer or refers from them, so they know the prices and they are in town. They had terrible experiences working with people out of town, overseas or any situation where they are not available in person; They paid cheap ones, and expensive ones and they are not happy....... I help them too when they request some views, and if I think there is a much better view, I do it for them as a freebie, but I let them know... " I'm sending another view (free) because, in my opinion, that view sells better your project than the view you wanted" ..... to me is another hour of renderitme, but for them, I did the extra mile because I want them success.

I'm very clear..... I said to them the 1st view is more expensive because I had to build everything to get them done and the other view require less work so for that reason is less expensive....you save money with more views.
Some time ago I got a "client" he wanted 10 views after negotiate he said, ok I want two, and he wanted to pay an average....So, I said no of course, this is the new price, zero discount and it's non-negotiable,.... He came back with another proposal, and I cut everything right away because I don't want to have that type of client.
Another guy called me then I sent my price, and then he showed to me two more estimates, and he wanted I match them....I said No because I don't want again that type of client with 3-4 estimates negotiating with all of them to get better prices.

at the end of the day, you decide what type of client you want for your business, filter them is key!!!

Fernando

[MANUEL_MOUSIOL]

I truly love this open and real discussion . Thanks guys for being so honest!
i totally agree with this view: prices per content and not flat and aiming for the right client who understands .
Being new in this field: who are those clients in general? Seems to me that it's not the average european furniture manufacturers.... High class build companies? (Because I've seen a good share of cheap archviz or even worse photography)

[glorybound]

I like a mixture of clients. I have what I call blue-chip clients, which are regulars. I'll do things for less and bend a lot more. This is about 40% of my business. The other 60% are one-offs that find me online and they need a rendering. These sometimes turn into blue-chip clients. My rule of thumb is if they complain about the price they'll be more difficult to please, so run. Everyone has a camera, but very few can make a living using it. I know a photographer that'll charge you $3000 to shoot a house, which will take him a day or two. Heck, I have a camera, I'll do it for $1500. The next guy with a camera will do it for $750 and so on. The good photographer who will charge $3000 is booked out year around and doesn't even worry about the ones racing to the bottom.

[flino2004]

Another important thing to take into consideration if you use flat fee is if you finish it before the dead line don’t send it.... when I was doing those renderings for Walmart because they use prototypes, I setup my workflow to really make the renderings in very short time but took me a year to get there... sometimes I finished the presentation in 3-5 hours...i didn’t send it right away because they could start questioning my fee.... $3500 in 3-5 hours is too much.... but on the other hand I had some remodelings that I spent more time and in some way compensated the easy ones.

The key is have a few clients where you get lesss than a full time employee with benefits, libraries and software cost....50K salary + benefits probably is around 60k..+ software & hardware so if you are around that number you are save so they don’t do the renderings in house..... 3-4 clients like that and you are a king with time to enjoy.

[glorybound]

The better you get, the more you charge, not the less. I have been doing this so long most jobs are easy, but that came from doing it for so long. At first, nothing was easy and I wanted to charge more than I was worth. Now that it’s easy I’m tempted to charge less than I’m worth.

[^Lele^]

oh, i thought there was a question somewhere.
Nevermind me.

[MANUEL_MOUSIOL]

oh, i thought there was a question somewhere.
Nevermind me.

Maybe that's where the trade secret comes in