Looks like war in Maxwell forum

[Dschaga]

flaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaming.

yep

[rpc212]

Breathing Heat!

[R2J2]

Flame on Johnny

[Dschaga]

you maybe know it, but flaming in this forum is so easy, because there are some ppl who identify themself with vray so it needs only a little "xxx-renderer is really good too .. some points are even better then vray"

want to flame go here:
http://www.chaosgroup.com/forum/phpB...wforum.php?f=9

[studioDIM]

you maybe know it, but flaming in this forum is so easy, because there are some ppl who identify themself with vray

I'd say it's called affection to the tools you paid for, and did the job WITH and FOR you over and over again.
A chipped hammer is even nicer in the hands of the crafty man, As he knows how to make the imperfect tool help him achieve his results.
A hammer with only the shaft, though, or the design of the shaft , is slightly harder to use, you'll agree.

so it needs only a little "xxx-renderer is really good too .. some points are even better then vray"

Especially when you compare a tool that's proven itself over many years, in places ranging from hollywood blockbusters to tv series, ads and musical videos, on top of architectural and design renderings, to some WISH, that has to the day ONE finished animation from a beta tester studio in its reel(ops, not even PAL...).

[flipside]

Don't think you can blame dschaga for comparing vray with maxwell, that's simply what everone's doing all over this and other forums.

[studioDIM]

I used his post to make a general point.

In my opinion there is much to be done yet to get that solution to the standards needed in general production environments.

Maybe it does work, with some limitations, if the plan is creating a single, architectural or design image, with little or no time constraints.
Its gallery speaks volumes about that type of usage, no denying it...

My personal experience, though, says flexibility is what's needed to cut it in the real world.
Particularly when you move away from architectural and design stills

[vlado]

Nextlimit was also the first company which forced development in the singleexe direction and chaos was following this steps far too late.

mental ray standalone for different platforms has been available since a very, very long time. Also, the V-Ray standalone and the V-Ray SDK have been in development for about two years, long before Maxwell appeared, even though they have not been commented much in public. Further on, V-Ray can be embedded into other applications, while Maxwell cannot.

V-Ray have now a skysystem(?) which was ignored by vlado for many month /years and i'm pretty sure that the reason for integrating the new vrayskysystem was the existing maxwells skysystem.

There is a point here, but I wouldn't have implemented it at all if users hadn't asked for it.

V-Ray uses now a new GI methode ...again ... without maxwell you wouldn't have this methode.

The light cache was introduced before Maxwell appeared, and in fact, one of its early versions did ppt by default while calculating it.

Maxwell was the first renderer which integrates a physical camera and since this was on the wishlist for many month for vray i would say that this is the reason why vray now have this feature too.

Maxwell does not simulate a real camera (can it do fish-eye or other camera distortions?), it uses a simple extention of the pinhole camera model, much like V-Ray does by default.

I agree though, that developments of one software product do influence others (example, finalRender adopted some of the V-Ray features and even gave the parameters the same names, other were taken from Brazil). All in all, this is to be expected.

Next Limit is indeed the first company to try to implement bi-directional path tracing and MLT into a commercial product, but there is a reason why others have avoided these algorithms for the last 10 years. Further on, we have been doing our own research in this direction too. V-Ray can (and probably will, eventually) be modified to use those algorithms within a week, while keeping all other features in place and working (displacement, motion blur, shaders, dynamic geometry etc). However, implementing all of those V-Ray features into Maxwell would require considerable amount of time.

Best regards,
Vlado

[trick]

...V-Ray can (and probably will, eventually) be modified to use those algorithms within a week, while keeping all other features in place and working (displacement, motion blur, shaders, dynamic geometry etc)...

I always thought of Maxwell as a reality check and VRay as a workhorse. So this is all I wanted to hear

[Da_elf]

the V-Ray standalone and the V-Ray SDK have been in development for about two years

not true. http://pages.infinit.net/elfpro/towermax.jpg was rendered outside of 3dsmax. and this was when i was in canada so it had to be atleast 3 years ago hehe

[Dschaga]

I always thought of Maxwell as a reality check and VRay as a workhorse. So this is all I wanted to hear

yep ..that's it - and it works with some workarounds great even with 1.09x!

Anyway my entrypoint to this discussion was a different one ..and no1 here reacted or grabbed my suggested similarity to maxwell.

I still wonder why vray users are interrested in the mistakes of a different company while seeing vlado working on vray64 / standalone / maya / xsi and don't have any problems with the suggested shared interrest ,resources and energy of developing many different branches of a product which should be released since how many month / years?

For some reasons i have the feeling that everyone here is happy to only know there will be vray1.5 ..
Hey! ...there will be peace, love and global understanding ..and that's why we don't have do do anything now!

[studioDIM]

V-Ray can (and probably will, eventually) be modified to use those algorithms within a week, while keeping all other features in place and working (displacement, motion blur, shaders, dynamic geometry etc).

Eheh, i guess i chose the right bandwagon, talking of a *flexible* codebase.
I rest my case: marketing hype is one thing, real world production well another...

For some reasons i have the feeling that everyone here is happy to only know there will be vray1.5 ..
Hey! ...there will be peace, love and global understanding ..and that's why we don't have do do anything now!

Maybe because the company has an history of production geared deliveries?
I.E. no massive cockups so far?
Or maybe because the implemented functions (whenever the dev team consider them ready to be implemented) work well, predictably, and reliably for the most part?
Guesswork, hey...

[Frances]

I think the trends and demands in the viz and fx industry perpetuate simultaneous development moreso than developers following each other around.

People like Vlado and Victor may have completely different forces driving the direction of their development process and still come to produce similar features. Talent and intelligence does not always amount to success. Effectiveness is what matters. I think Vlado and Peter, et al, win in the effectiveness department. They have delivered a great and useful product with nearly unlimited capabilities.

I love Vray because it doesn't get in my way. I also loved Maxwell because of what it could do. I expected the recent releases to be like the beta but better. I didn't expect it to render in 8 seconds (the length of time it takes Homer Simpson to nuke meatloaf and it's still too long). If it could give me the render I wanted in 8 HOURS I would have been happy. I don't think I had unrealistic expectations for the RC - we were practically spoon-fed high expectations.

I am really queasy from the roller-coaster ride.

[olitech]

Don't forget that Chaos' customer support is fantastic.

I mean it blows my mind that the developers themselves (Vlado, Peter) respond directly to forum questions.

That alone is unequalled.

[cpnichols]

If it could give me the render I wanted in 8 HOURS I would have been happy.

If any of my renders take longer then 1 or 2 hours a frame, I get a slap on the back of the head. And I have to render at 2048x1568 for every frame with motion blur.