Gotta Vent

[jujubee]

People are free to express their views - on the other hand you can say that other 'religious groups' are free to practice their beliefs too:

http://www.vimeo.com/clip:64766/context/tag:terrorism

So yeah feel free to express yourself - feel free to circumcise, perform clitorectomies, force half the population to wear veils, hit your children over their heads with knives, beat yourselves, pull out hair, put rings around ones neck, tattoo your children, scar your children - basically impose your beliefs (or what someone else has taught you growing up aka brainwashing) on someone else.

[3ddesign]

Thanks jujubee for your delightful comments. I knew that this thread would deteriorate into an emotional anti-religion thread. They always do.

Craig

[olitech]

People are free to express their views - on the other hand you can say that other 'religious groups' are free to practice their beliefs too:

Whew! that's a relief!

[jujubee]

It's not deteriorating.

And I am anti-religious (not anti-spiritual mind you.) Nor am I a bad person as some of you judgemental religious types would automatically like to presume of others.

[olitech]

It's not deteriorating.

How bout now?

[Adam H. Stewart]

Hitler and God

"Gott Mit Uns" - means god With Us and appeared on the Nazi solidiers belt buckles during WWII

I believe that Hitler very much believed in God and very much believed God was on his side. Not understanding the real lessons of history is a very very slippery slope:

On April 20, 1939, Archbishop Orsenigo celebrated Hitler's birthday. The celebrations, initiated by Pacelli (Pope Pius XII) became a tradition. Each April 20, Cardinal Bertram of Berlin was to send "warmest congratulations to the Fuhrer in the name of the bishops and the dioceses in Germany" and added with "fervent prayers which the Catholics of Germany are sending to heaven on their altars."

"I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.." - Mein Kampf

Check it out for yourself :
http://www.nobeliefs.com/Hitler1.htm

This very much illustrates my point about Religion - Hitler was in power in Germany and he used the existing religion to justify of some of the most gruesome and blood thirsty crimes the planet has ever seen. Alas if this was an anomaly in human history, but this repeated over and over again.

[glyph]

yeah but jujubee we all get indoctrinated by the culture we live in,
it's inescapable - and my culture is better than yours, yahhh

how did the Burmese long neck asians get dragged in ?
- ok it might be a very weird cultural thing imposed by the males but I dont think its religious as such

where's ipraiseg anyway? it was only a signature wasn't it? how else does one get to know other people on a forum unless they can hint at who they are?

[jujubee]

Agreed - we are all indoctrinated to some degree.

People are more than welcome to believe what they want, just as I am free to think their beliefs suck. Some people still think the world is flat. Others still think the sun revolves around the earth.

[mmikee]

There will always be those who will twist religion to justify horrible acts.
But that does not make religion the culprit. Anything and everything has been twisted throughout history. For example, the Christian bible can be twisted and misrepresented by anyone. I have read a good deal of it
and nothing that I have read in it can be used to justify the insane acts
of people like Hitler. What he did contadicts the entire meaning of the gospels.
Actions still come down to individual decisions.

[DaForce]

Im with you Juju

olitech:
hahahah your not helping you know

Its funny whats brings us together.. ahhahaha thanks 3ddesign

[Morbid Angel]

dudes, when I saw his signature I thought, well another very very religious guy. Perhaps so religious he doesnt even know how much. However that did not offend me. It didnt say: Fuck off Jesus, or any other statements. Why not thank Jesus?
On the other hand, I come from a very religious country; Ukraine has been very much all in churches for thousands of years, and though I never was involved into deep religious practices, I learned that speaking Lords name invein and all the time is also a wrong doing.
Enjoy.

[Adam H. Stewart]

Actions still come down to individual decisions.

If only it was that simple. That is the problem with religion. I can't remember who said it but I think it is a brilliant quote.

"Religion was invented to to take people from God"

Think about it, if God is in all of us, why do we need to go a listen to people tell us how to worship him or interprit the Bible or whatever writing that puports to be his word.

How many of us would stand up and say "I do not believe this is right" if it happened again today? If you're Minister or Priest or Rabi was telling you - go ahead do it, it's your duty as a good Christian or whatever your religion is. The answer is very few stand up and say this is wrong and I'm not taking part, because in most cases religion which is controlled by whoever is in power tells the people what they should think and free will has nothing to do with it.

[Morbid Angel]

the term you are looking for is: Illuminati.
And yes I agree for the most part.
When some religious group come to my house and say you have to donate 25% of your cheque to us...what kind of belief is that?

[3ddesign]

Hah! I knew it would come to this. I just didn't know it would happen so fast. DaForce, you were right to kindly ask ipraiseg to remove the religious reference from his signature. You saved him from a sure onslaught of angry attacks by the enlightened among us.

But this thread has a bright side. I finally found out that I am a judgmental religious type who automatically thinks non-religious people are bad. Heck, I bet I even hit my kids over the head with knives, had my daughter's clitoris removed and pulled all my hair out. Amazing when you consider that I never mentioned that I was religious nor that I agree with ipraiseg's religious views. All I was advocating was a little tolerance. Unfortunately, the same intolerance that has caused so much misery in the world is alive and well on this forum.

Oh, and Adam, I am extremely familiar with history. If you read my words a bit more carefully you would have noticed that I didn't say Hitler wasn't religious. And yes, he used the religious prejudices of others to advance his plans. But his writings indicate that his motivations, while couched in religious belief, were more a product of his hate than of a perceived mandate from God.

The thing Hitler, Mao and Pol Pot had in common is that they enlisted emotionally charged young men who were full of hate and intolerance to destroy the religious freedom of others. My point was that Mr. Stewart's comments telling us to keep God out of our Schools, Government and this Forum is not that far removed from the battle cry of these three tyrants.

If there is a "real lesson" to be garnered from history, its that people, powered by unchecked emotions, not religion, that kills. Even an innocent request to remove a religious expression from an obscure post on a insignificant forum could be the crest of that "slippery slope." I hope we're smart enough to recognize that.

Craig

[mmikee]

The people who would blindly follow what others tell about religion are weak minded. It was up to me to read the bible and decide for myself
what it meant. I am not a deeply religious person. But I do know that if
someone actually reads the new testament they will see for themselves
that what insane people have done in the name of it doesnt stand up
to what it says. Whether or not you believe it is the word of god isnt really
my point. I am still not sure about that myself. But the actions of Hitler and the like are so far away from what the story of Jesus was about.
All that said, I do think that there is a time and a place for all things. I
think DaForce and others were right about this not really being the place to be to religious, political, etc. (even as I am posting this ) This is a great community, and I would hate to see everyone getting mad at each other.