Gotta Vent

[nvanherpt]

So in takin steps to avoid it, it appears to have happened anyway..

that's preemtive strikes for ya

[tom182]

Just going back to the original point as per Craigs Vent. (This really is the Off Off-Topic forum)
The fundamental point regarding ipraiseg's sig was that how can it be offense, I dont think he crossed any line. Having said that if he had said 'JC/Buddah/Allah/Ganesha is a crock of sh1t' etc then I would agree that such material should be deleted. Casting defamatory remarks only incites people and ultimately will have a negative effect on this forum. Surely we'll all agree on that. Personally think it was harsh to edit his post.

Tom
(oh well its the 12th again, I'm off marching )

[studioDIM]

I wanted t shy away from this, but i can't resist:
I agree with the Point of View of Both Daforce and Adam.
Entirely.
In Venice (Italy, not California)there's the famous "Republic lion" statue: in one hand the New Testament, in the other the Sword.
The two things used to spread influence and power from the east to the west in its hayday.
It was such 500 years ago, it seems it's the same (in practice) to the day, if coming from different places.
If one elevates a political belief to religion (absolutism does that: hitler, stalin, polpot, mussolini, franco) we're back to square one: the only thing that changes is the name, not the ways in which the useful propaganda is distributed amongst the people.
Hipocrisy and selective beliefs are what really insult me.
And i was also taught a true religious person wouldn't TALK about religion, but would LIVE by it, and his actions NOT his words would mark him out.
And i was lucky enough to meet a few of those across the world, and admire their lifestyles.
I have to say i met too few.

Lele

[s0real]

nicely put.

i don't understand why some people feel the need to wear their religion like a badge - in my opinion it's a personal thing and should be kept personal...

i don't subscribe to any particular religion but i don't feel the need to tell anyone that in a signature on a 3d forum...i don't feel it's in the right context.

interesting topic though - just hope it doesn't get out of hand

[instinct]

Hmm....gotta say that i agree with many points on both sides....something that always puts me off in that kind of discussion is the "Hey ppl kill in the name of god it must be evil" and the "Hey They force their religion onto people it all must be evil" statements. If you ask me the biggest "force" based on religion and god today is the US. I mean George has the balls to tell God spoke to him. And he has the ball to sell wars as the right way...how can he blame others for doing just that while doing the same ? Dont get me wrong, i'm not saying the others are right....just that he's wrong too. :P

And on the original Topic i wouldnt find anything offending in that kind of Sinature. And i gotta agree that i dont really understand why it was such a big issue. And in the End i'd say most signatures reflect some kind of belief....be it a religous one or a non-religous one.

[sarcasm]
As an example take rpc's : "DR or Die!"
I wonder if the belief in DR could offend anyone without renderfarm :P
[/sarcasm]

Anyways, just my two cents

Thorsten

P.S. /me pats lele....been trying to resist too lol

[studioDIM]

THE DEVIL IS IN THE DETAILS...

Lele

[s0real]

i knew somebody would mention that - just liked the quote!

[DaForce]

Well said Lele, and s0real
Well said indeed.

Was waiting for you to post Lele

Yeah good old Georgie... he really is doing the US a service isnt he..

[charleyc]

I feel it should be mentioned that the bible does not support much of what has been done in its name throughout history. In fact it condemns a lot of it (such as using violence to spread the belief). People have used religion as a tool (as Adam mentioned) to further their own selfish ambitions for thousands of years. But this is most often a twisting of the true religion. Rome, on some occasions, would inject multiple religions into a single one in an effort to maintain peace within conquered people. It is not always the religion that brings fault, many times it is the man. That is not to say that there are not some religions in this world that lean towards more jaded beliefs. But some people will do whatever it takes to get and keep power with or without concern for religion. Organized crime uses money and violence to persuade, the drug industry will use addiction, money and violence. Some use sex, some blackmail, some steal...the list goes on. Evil people will do whatever they can to get what they want. Many people are simply born into a religion. Many times they do not make a conscious decision to follow it, they are it because their parents were and their parents parents and so forth. To them it is as Adam said, a social club, they never truly learn what it is that they are so apt to declare. When it comes to religion, people who are not strong in their belief are easily swayed. How many people believe what they see on tv regarding their religion? There are many things that man will use as a tool for personal gain, religion is only one of them. While there is good reason to keep church and state separate, it is certainly not because church automatically brings corruption to the state and should be looked at with great caution. More often than not, throughout history it was the other way around. It is very unfortunate that religion has been misused so heinously over the years. But not all religions advocate those behaviors.

[studioDIM]

While there is good reason to keep church and state separate, it is certainly not because church automatically brings corruption to the state and should be looked at with great caution. More often than not, throughout history it was the other way around.

This is a strong, general statement.
Would you care to elaborate with some specific details?
As i'd say i do have many proofs of the opposite, from early histroy to the present one, in my own country and abroad.

Lele

[charleyc]

The Roman government forcibly intermixed some of its own religions with Christianity in an effort to bring peace between those who were being converted and those who were not. This greatly corrupted much of Christianity at the time. Around 600-800 AD in parts of Europe the rulers used the church to extract money and power from the peasants. This corruption, which started by way of the governments spread deep in the church itself until it was reformed hundreds of years later, which caused many splinters within the faith, many of which exist to this day. Some communist countries legislate a state religion of their own usually based on a popular religion at the time. In more recent years and a bit more subtle, Mormons have had to adapt their religious doctrine over the years to conform to US laws of the times as some of their beliefs became illegal. At the rate we are going, it probably wont be long before some of the beliefs held by Christians will be legislated as unlawful.
That being said, I do not disagree that some corruption comes from the church, just not all of it.

[Syclone1]

Well I mite as well join in the fun...

Personally, I could care less what religion you believe in and or what others have done in the past in the name of any religion. Alot of the time bringing up the past can boil down to pointing fingers, hurt feelings and eventually blind rage. Im not as knowledgeable of the past as some of you in here but to me for the most part the past is the past and theres no sence dwelling on what has been done when Im living in the present.

I do know there is a lot of diversity in this forum and its one of only a coulple forums Im actually proud to be a part of because its remained quite civil for the past I think 5 or so years its been around.

Basically what I guess Im saying is what does it matter what religion someone practices if there not preaching it to you? And that from what Ive read pretty much any religion has blood in their past which proves none is perfect and just like the popular gun saying, its the man/woman that (instert act of wrong doing here) not the religion...

-dave

[beestee]

At the end of the day, this forum will still be about a render engine, and that will continue to be the primary focus of discussion. I come here to learn about this render engine, and if someone thinks it is an environment where they are comfortable enough to express their beliefs to others, then let them, because as a reader I take the responsibility to decide what I will read and what I will not read.

If someone likes pancakes, let them say it. If it offends you, then you don't have to read it or even believe it. Personally, I initially believe very little of what I read on the internet.

[Syclone1]

well said Beestee

[olitech]

Moral avengers:

-ipraiseg's signature was stating his belief, not his religion.
-wouldn't all of you (information age generation) agree that censorship is by far more of a brainwashing tool than religion? (hitler's fave weapon btw...pol pot et al)
-there have been far more 'offensive' avatars left on (aka so n so's blackface). no comments about that one? does tht mean you're all racists? nope.
-are all religious people judgemental? nope.
-are all atheists/agnostics bad? nope.
-is it harder to love than hate? Absolutely!
-do i love pancakes? OH YES

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All Hail the Mighty Pancake!