Outsourcing, cheap markets - ethics

[mcvltd]

I'd rather hear someone condemn this practice, someone say that we should stick together, form some sort of a syndicate, educate the clients, participate in "will render for food" action in order to undercut the oversea market... even a simple "it's wrong" at first ball would be enough, instead of quoting the price of tea in China.


I'd rather have people with pirated software flood the market with comperable prices and have much higher profit margins, instead of undercutting and making it hard for honest people. So please don't tell me that these people aren't bad at all

Hehehe... I was waiting for you to post something like this!

If I read you correctly, you seem to be proposing some sort of 'price fixing' scheme - please be aware that what you are suggesting is illegal.

Kind regards,

Rob.

[RErender]

I'd rather hear someone condemn this practice, someone say that we should stick together, form some sort of a syndicate, educate the clients, participate in "will render for food" action in order to undercut the oversea market... even a simple "it's wrong" at first ball would be enough, instead of quoting the price of tea in China.


I'd rather have people with pirated software flood the market with comperable prices and have much higher profit margins, instead of undercutting and making it hard for honest people. So please don't tell me that these people aren't bad at all

Hehehe... I was waiting for you to post something like this!

If I read you correctly, you seem to be proposing some sort of 'price fixing' scheme - please be aware that what you are suggesting is illegal.

Kind regards,

Rob.

It is not necessarily illegal, depends how it is done.

[mcvltd]

It is not necessarily illegal, depends how it is done.

...tell me more...

[posterus]

Guild: An association of persons of the same trade or pursuits, formed to protect mutual interests and maintain standards.

doctors, lawyers, architects, engineers, etc... all have some kind of professional association. maybe you arch viz artists would benefit from such an organization. the membership dues could be used to finance any number of things that benefit the group as a whole. with enough members (who pay dues) you could hire lawyers to enforce existing laws or lobby lawmakers to help make new ones. call it the international association of architectural visualization artists...the IAAVA
i imagine something like that would be very difficult to form.

[percydaman]

I've even heard that autodesk releases cracks out there themselves, but that's not really the point. One thing is to learn on a cracked copy, another is to earn money of one, but a whole other thing is to undercut the market by doing it.

I haven't seen anyone here say it ISN'T wrong. They might be giving what they think are reasons why people do it, and that those people aren't necessarily bad people, but its wrong no doubt about it. I learned 3dsmax from a cracked copy. I always knew that one day I would get a job using it where the studio DID purchase each and every license. No access to cracked copy? Autodesk would be out a license, plain and simple. I would have gone another route professionally.

I was under the impression that people where trying to justify it. I mean, everyone keeps using arguments like "well, that's free economy for ya!" "those are the results of globalisation!", "you have to adapt to the market!", and i find the comment about lifting boxes instead of doing 3d somewhat insulting.

I'd rather hear someone condemn this practice, someone say that we should stick together, form some sort of a syndicate, educate the clients, participate in "will render for food" action in order to undercut the oversea market... even a simple "it's wrong" at first ball would be enough, instead of quoting the price of tea in China.


I'd rather have people with pirated software flood the market with comperable prices and have much higher profit margins, instead of undercutting and making it hard for honest people. So please don't tell me that these people aren't bad at all

I think we're just arguing from 2 sides of the same coin.

[dlparisi]

Guild: maybe you arch viz artists would benefit from such an organization. the membership dues could be used to finance any number of things that benefit the group as a whole. with enough members (who pay dues) you could hire lawyers to enforce existing laws or lobby lawmakers to help make new ones. call it the international association of architectural visualization artists...the IAAVA
i imagine something like that would be very difficult to form.

It already exists....http://www.asai.org/ Started basically for hand illustrators but has come to encompass digital presentations as well.

[RErender]

It is not necessarily illegal, depends how it is done.

...tell me more...

Many service sectors have "Flat Rate Guides" and serve to at least tighten up the spread of pricing, if someone charging $10 an hour finds out everyone else is charging $100, he would be wise to raise his prices to $80 and only have to work 12.5% as hard to make the same money if he sells 25% as many jobs as before his income will still double and the other 75% percent of the work is still available.

[studioDIM]

I think it's a lot simpler than guild and price fixing.

Price/performance ratio.

Internationally there's no control over price, as most westerners do benefit daily from the lack of such control.

So, where your competitor's price is very low, driving the resulting ratio way down,your performance has to be skyhigh, to match that.

Simple, straightforward, legal and bettering an exercise.

Lele

[mcvltd]

It is not necessarily illegal, depends how it is done.

...tell me more...

Many service sectors have "Flat Rate Guides" and serve to at least tighten up the spread of pricing, if someone charging $10 an hour finds out everyone else is charging $100, he would be wise to raise his prices to $80 and only have to work 12.5% as hard to make the same money if he sells 25% as many jobs as before his income will still double and the other 75% percent of the work is still available.

I see. That's a bit like an open and honest 'this is how much we are charging chaps' type situation, in the hope that everybody will play fair.

I guess the lack of a worldwide flat rate guide in the viz industry has led people to set thier prices at whatever they feel they can make a profit from.

Is this unethical though? (see title of post)

Rob.

[jhiler]

i believe what he thought was unethical was the possibilty of those using pirated software and charging a fraction of the cost compared to those using legit software and charging a 'fair value' for the work.

as someone pointed out it is nearly impossible to figure out who is using legit software and who isn't. as well as who is able to say what is the fair price. a fair price in the us is different from anywhere else in the world.

pirated software is a problem and will exist no matter if there is a guild or association or any other organization that sets rates etc...

[mcvltd]

jhiler - agreed, the answer, as previously said, is not to fix prices but to add value to your sevice.

It wont solve the piracy issue but will make it less of an issue for those of us who choose to buy our software (which ever country they live in).

Rob.

[pailhead]

*delete this please*

[posterus]

contact BSA, they have offices all over the world.
http://www.bsa.org/usa/report/BSA-Of...d-Hotlines.cfm
see if they have a case on any of the companies in question...if not then report them.

[mcvltd]

Isn't it kinda obvious that someone who charges $50 per render is using pirated software?

For example, this is an image produced using 3d studio Max, Final render, and i think IronCAD or something like that, which is actually free.


Price? Whooping 15 euros, less than $20. Can you honestly say that this image is so bad that it's repelling to professional clients?

Where is your clear evidence that this company is using pirated software? Or are you making an assumption? If you have no evidence then you really shouldn't make those kind of allegations. If you have, then report them.

I think it's wrong to make an automatic link between low price and piracy.

[teabag]

bloody hell pailhead.....for some people in the east 20 dollars is as much as 100 bucks for u. U have no evidence that this company or freelancer uses pirated software.

if they charge 20 dollars /render in order to get more clinets in it is perfectly fine....u never know ...they might be producing 20 of those per day, or it might be a part of a bigger housing scheme the render....so please dont make assumptions if u dont have any evidence in your hands.

even if they do this in russia or elsewhere i would not be offended or bothered to do something about it...i d rather spend time on differet forums learning stuff and making contacts with people ...rather that hunting down suspicious companies and freelancers