Overtime - where do you draw a line?

[Morbid Angel]

Thats terrible company principles. I bet they have a high turnover rate (of employees). When work starts affecting your health like that you know something is wrong. I cant believe they would just shrug you off like that without any understanding after you have given so much.

I hope it works out for you mate.

thanks it always does. As a freelancer I have that freedom of dictating my own terms and drawing the line when I see fit. I have worked in few places where the hours were great, and they treated the team as people and then when they have asked you to come in on the weekend for maybe few hours I was more then happy to do that because of the way I felt about that studio. Too those studios are no more

[^Lele^]

Btw, Lele, I lost 8 kg in 2 month while being there.

Yay.
Forget the Atkins diet!
Stress is the way forward!

[Morbid Angel]

Yay.
Forget the Atkins diet!
Stress is the way forward!

its also a most direct way to cancer and early death. W00t I left the country which caused my most stress in my life and now Im back at square one

[moshenko]

I can't figure out why - other than the perceived* financial benefit - companies in creative industries continue to treat their employees like complete crap. As a business owner, I know that my company is nothing without its employees and I want to keep them by all means possible. That means paying overtime, hiring more people when overtime starts to become an issue, and generally trying to allow employees to have as normal a life outside of work as possible. Hell, at the very least it makes me feel more relaxed knowing that I don't have to worry about sudden resignations or retaliations.

Dmitry, good for you for taking a clear stance. Your health and family happiness is not worth losing for the sake of, what, computers??

* I say "perceived" because I think it is shortsighted to consider unpaid overtime and general employee beat-downs as a "savings". Eventually, it all catches up and the cost of replacing, retraining and dealing with HR issues far outweighs the original "savings".

[Morbid Angel]

Dmitry, good for you for taking a clear stance. Your health and family happiness is not worth losing for the sake of, what, computers??

Well, this isn't the first time by far. Once during a project I worked so much and I had a really bad monitor that I went partially blind for a month! I am not kidding. Ever since then, I cannot see as well on my right eye. And for what? some archviz interior that no one ever going to give a crap about?

[joconnell]

Just finished a 6 week arch vis job - broadcast animation where it's roughly 2 - 3 minutes of flythroughs per episode with 1 week of time budgeted to complete each episode. Needless to say it pulled in more people on top of me working 14 - 16 hours a day for the full duration, made a loss for the company and tied up the ten machine render far for the other more profitable commercial jobs going through - same as yourself and lele, just really dumb management. I reckon the only good folks to work for are ex artists / operators who have a better handle on what really goes down on jobs.

[Morbid Angel]

I reckon the only good folks to work for are ex artists / operators who have a better handle on what really goes down on jobs.

this is 100% true. However its a rare case.

[jujubee]

I think it's a very rare individual that you would find who knows how to run a business, market, estimate, project manage, understand the field you are catering to, understand the programs, and understand the hardware.

I interviewed a long time ago at one company here - I really wanted to work for them. I called then finally they called me back, offered terrible compensation, and asked me to come in the next day all day on a Sunday. I had things planned for the weekend. The owner also said to me, "I don't like to have to tell my employees when they need to put in extra 'effort' to get the job done - you understand what I mean?"

I was very disappointed - a company I held in the highest regards to realize that they were mostly overworking slaves and fresh students out of college. I eventually told the owner 'exactly' what I had in mind - and CC'd it to his management stating that his terms were 'highly unreasonable and unjust.' I also told them that I used to admire their work and now that's 'completely ruined.'

Now, I can kind of understand that a younger person with no family may be able to work insane hours - but at a certain point it goes from 'understandable' to 'abusive.'

And it's not just the Visual Effects industry. The same has applied to many 'dot coms', game studios, and even the publishing industry.

The only people who can really put a cap or stop to these practices are business owners and governments. But with jobs having been slow the past few months, sometimes you have to take what you can just to sleep at night.

[mike_kennedy]

If your being paid by the hour it almost makes sense.... salary certainly not, but don't feel bad about making your health a priority, in the long run it's more important.

[^Lele^]

I reckon the only good folks to work for are ex artists / operators who have a better handle on what really goes down on jobs.

If they worked it for long enough, seriously enough, yes.
If they just use it as a stick to beat you sensless, naye XD
It's rare to find the good ones, agreed,but it exists

As for money paying for shit working conditions, i disagree entirely.
Paid OT one cannot say no to is just a modern form of slavery.
You'll be sick the week you'll take as holidays afterwards (stress release), and there's often no time to do all you missed during the previous months.
But your money'll stay with your wife and family long after that stroke's taken you out.
It's a case of priorities.
I'd rather have a lot less money, but with the time to enjoy them day by day.

[^Lele^]

bah, stupid firefox (user)

[dejaVu]

I can totally empathise Dmitry and wish you all the best in your new freedom.
This industry does take it's toll on your body, mind and everything in between.
After so many years of letting work dictate life, perhaps this economic downturn is an opportuntity to re-evaluate and make some hard decisions.

I have been seriously thinking about finding a job that is less stressful, not deadline based and allows me to switch off at the end of the day.
Sure it will probably be a little mundane, and pay less, but ultimately it will allow me time to do the other things I enjoy but have put off because of work commitments.

[skogskalle]

interesting (and sadly depressing) thread!

Best wishes to you morbid. Definetly the right choice. Its just not worth it, especially for a company that doesnt give a sh*t about you....

I run my own business, a small one-man-studio, and although i struggle with deadlines and have to do some serious overtime from time to time like everyone else, its always my own choice. I get to say when enough is enough, and I always have the possibility to say NO to a project when there is too much else going on, either with the business or family.
Sure - it has drawbacks like everything else, you never know how much money youll make etc which can cause bad stress also... but the problems discussed in this thread just isnt there for me.
Maybe you should fly solo? You can always team up or share an office with other creative people if you miss workingbuddies....

good luck.
k

[jujubee]

@skog. Because I turned down the job offered to me here, I started my own business as well with a few contractors. Things I'd say are slow for most everyone right now, but when times were better I didn't have to deal with too unreasonable conditions. And if I did, then I generally had no one to blame but myself or I wouldn't hesitate to tell my client when something was getting out of control or impossible.

It can be very rewarding and sometimes stressful. I'll have a month where I am very busy, and the next I'll just need time to relax.

Morbid is one of the smartest and most talented guys on the forum. Maybe there's some way to switch from being a professional contractor to running his own show. I suppose it's different for every field.

Completely leaving our field seems out of the question for me. Very few jobs are secure, pay is sometimes less, and a lot of benefits (here in the US at least) have disappeared. The grass always seems greener on the other side.

[glyph]

its shocking that it seems so acceptable to companies that they can do this with impunity
- perhaps because artists are less militant and love their job, companies get away with it

perhaps trade unions need to make a comeback