Basic Exterior and Interior Set up

[Brandon Blair]

To tell you the truth, reading all the posts and watching all the videos will just confuse you. Ask ten people and you'll get ten different answers. I remember my first V-Ray project. It went well, easy, and the client commented on all the amazing detail. Then, I started reading all the threads, watched all the videos, and it took me years to recover. I would recommend studying basic art and color theory, architectural photography, and storytelling. Learn how to use a real camera and how to take a good picture with it. Learn about lighting, what lumens are and the software will make sense.

With HDRI's, it gets frustrating because the brightness is different in almost all of them. Set the camera to a real-world value and adjust the HDRI's intensity accordingly. For interiors, set the lights to the correct lumens, the camera to real-world values, and your lighting should start to look real. With materials, what works for me is a good diffused and bump if needed. Look at photos and add reflection and glossiness if needed. I have seen people spend an hour creating a material that takes an hour to render on a shader ball. Keep it simple.

I am sure much smarter people will have much more to say, but be prepared to hear just the opposite from others.

I am having a hard time not getting blown out ( pure white ) images using manual settings for the physical camera. Its strange because when I turn off the dome light the lighting gets a lot better but I obviously lose the Hdri information and lighting. I have tried cranking down the overall and render mult, setting for the hrdi but it doesn't seem to effect it being blown out at all. even if I drop the parameters to .1 from 1 on either end. What I understand the position of the dome light shouldn't matter, is the intensity on the dome light to high if my camera settings seem to be " correct ".

So I have been trying to set up exterior lighting. I am using a physical camera ( Max 2019 ) the settings for exposure : F Stop / Aperture is 6 ISO is 800 and Shuter is set to 30 frames. What unit type is best for shutter speeds? Frames, 1/sec, seconds, etc? I just kept it on the base unit I assume other unit types have more control or are better in motion.

I have a hdri map set to the my domelight as well as my environment back ground and in the camera viewport the background is also showing. I am using the physical camera settings to drive the exposure control in the environment tab, which I assumed would be correct because I am setting up the physical camera manually.

Ill keep playing and testing, but maybe its something I cant see.

Edit: I forgot to drop my hdri map into my dome light, that seems to help with the over blown image and now I can see my basic test geometry... Now the issue seems to be the hdri doesn't show up in the render at all just pure white hah

Edit2: I set the camera white balance to pure white instead of Illuminat daylight default. That seems to have gotten my hdri to render out aswell. Maybe further tweaking of the rendering output for the hdri map will help balance the lighting.

Cheers, Brandon

[glorybound]

800 ISO for the exterior is really high. Try 100/8/100.

[Brandon Blair]

800 ISO for the exterior is really high. Try 100/8/100.

This really helped smoothing out the lighting and giving me finer control so far! Thank you. So I am assuming higher Iso and exposure settings in general are better in interior set ups while using correct lumen values on my interior lighting.

Cheers Bobby.

[glorybound]

Yes, that is what I was trying to say in the original post. Don't get buried in software stuff, study how to use a camera, how to compose a photo, and how to use shadow and light to create something compelling. Your original setting was for a pretty dark interior.

[Brandon Blair]

Yes, that is what I was trying to say in the original post. Don't get buried in software stuff, study how to use a camera, how to compose a photo, and how to use shadow and light to create something compelling. Your original setting was for a pretty dark interior.

Hah! Yeah I was pulling the parameters from some v ray courseware and it looked like a exterior scene but in reality it was a really closed space with a little bit of natural light peaking through. Which wouldn't apply to my set up at the time, funny enough I have downloaded and printed out a similar info-graphic to that one you posted! I just got done with some intro to photography classes online and my friend who does all pro photography work is meeting me for lunch today, this understanding really does help. I will be practicing interiors soon using man made light and trying to learn how control them and set the correct lumens.

This is a good first step! Thank you for your knowledge.

Brandon

[^Lele^]

Brandon Blair , rendering is the simulation of light going through a camera *after it hit things*.
By all means, study photography, but do not forget to study materials, lighting and a modicum of physics (as a product designer, versed in engineering concepts, the amount of needed physics ought to be quite trivial).

You won't *ever* be able to correct a wrong material or lighting setup with exposure.
In fact, i'd forget exposure entirely for the time being, and concentrate on shading and lighting setup *without* the added variable of exposure.
Without knowing what your lighting, materials and topological setup looks like, how could changing exposure solve anything at all?

Use forum search, and remember to check your sources.
Threads have views and replies, and the biggest ones are the ones with the most information.
While some are out of date for UI and controls, none of the main ones are outdated for concepts expressed (not in this forum, anyway. plenty of that out there, though.).
And i have yet to subscribe to Bobby's unflattering, and defeatist, take on the amount of information that should be called information overload.
I'd assume an engineer by schooling (or if not, someone used to engineering material) has a slightly higher tolerance than a non-technically schooled person.
I'd also hope one such figure would understand, and cherish, logic and exact numbers as a way to not let bridges and roofs collapse, yes?
Same here, no difference at all, besides what will collapse.


edit: there is also a chaosTV channel on youtube.

[glorybound]

A translation to the above post will be available shortly.

[^Lele^]

A translation to the above post will be available shortly.

The second the one the post was intended for will ask for it, Bobby.

[Brandon Blair]

Brandon Blair , rendering is the simulation of light going through a camera *after it hit things*.
By all means, study photography, but do not forget to study materials, lighting and a modicum of physics (as a product designer, versed in engineering concepts, the amount of needed physics ought to be quite trivial).

You won't *ever* be able to correct a wrong material or lighting setup with exposure.
In fact, i'd forget exposure entirely for the time being, and concentrate on shading and lighting setup *without* the added variable of exposure.
Without knowing what your lighting, materials and topological setup looks like, how could changing exposure solve anything at all?

Use forum search, and remember to check your sources.
Threads have views and replies, and the biggest ones are the ones with the most information.
While some are out of date for UI and controls, none of the main ones are outdated for concepts expressed (not in this forum, anyway. plenty of that out there, though.).
And i have yet to subscribe to Bobby's unflattering, and defeatist, take on the amount of information that should be called information overload.
I'd assume an engineer by schooling (or if not, someone used to engineering material) has a slightly higher tolerance than a non-technically schooled person.
I'd also hope one such figure would understand, and cherish, logic and exact numbers as a way to not let bridges and roofs collapse, yes?
Same here, no difference at all, besides what will collapse.


edit: there is also a chaosTV channel on youtube.

I am taking everything with a grain of salt till I can understand it all more myself. I have been studying up on the material editor quite a bit, I think my next venture is interior lighting and mixing daylight with interior lighting. You are right about the need and value of understanding the physical side of the software and what it is trying to simulate. I have dug my way threw loads of manufacturing paperwork during design phases so it doesn't scare me at all.

When I get time I will dig around the forums for more valuable information.

Cheers Brandon

[glorybound]

Brandon,

Hopefully, you are receiving the banter in the spirit it is given. I am just giving Lele the business all in humor.

[Ihno]

I think to get an idea of how real materials work and especially how bright they are (surprisingly dark most of the times)
It would be a good Idea to grab the vrscans trail and test the hell out of it.
Try to replicate a bunch of those materials using regular vray materials. That would probably help alot.
You'll never match them 100% but try to get as close as possible.

Also, I think its a good idea to buy a dslr and a few books about photography. You can learn so much from taking photos yourself.
Not only how to set up a camera but also how to frame something and how to light things.

Edit: Its always a good idea to believe what lele says, he's an inexhaustible spring of wisdom!
Most members on this forum who are around for more than 5-6 years are knowing what they're talking about.

[^Lele^]

What Inho didn't say, but may well be apparent by now, is that i can also be abrupt, when not pass for a proper ****head.
I wish i could say it's not the case, a misunderstanding, or forums image, but alas, it ain't. ^^
You ought to be ok so long as you can split the message from the messenger.

Here are some of the VRScans profiled, and in general the thread is a good one with a few good ideas thrown around
https://forums.chaosgroup.com/forum/...342#post824342

[Ihno]

What Inho didn't say, but may well be apparent by now, is that i can also be abrupt, when not pass for a proper ****head.
I wish i could say it's not the case, a misunderstanding, or forums image, but alas, it ain't. ^^
https://forums.chaosgroup.com/forum/...342#post824342

Yea well, I've got the feeling that happens when someone doesn't believe what you're saying. That kind of makes my point even more valid.. in a wrong way.
But hey, you're not talking shit. So as long as that's the case, it's OK.
I was always so happy by the fact that I really learnt something from reading your posts that this made me forget about the tone.

Here are some of the VRScans profiled, and in general the thread is a good one with a few good ideas thrown around
https://forums.chaosgroup.com/forum/...342#post824342

Yes! That thread changed my life.
I still pray to the gods of sampling every night that you're going to write that document you never came around to write.
I'd also be very interested to learn your measurement methods. But thats now pretty off topic here.

[^Lele^]

Yea well, I've got the feeling that happens when someone doesn't believe what you're saying. That kind of makes my point even more valid.. in a wrong way.

Ahah, close enough: i do get mightily ticked off by quickfire opinions which have no (or too little!) experimental basis.
But man i LOVE to be proven wrong if it leads to learning something.
Seriously, ask Vlado, he knows of that bit... XD


As for the VRScans measurements, i'm in a bit of a flux, because the public library is still of mixed value: some scans are old, some plain wrong (for measurement, maybe not for rendering per se), or with issues the early scan tech couldn't avoid.
The scanners are used around the clock for clients' custom scanning needs, meaning the library hasn't had the chance to be redone/updated to the newest scanning tech (twice the resolution at 31 micrometers, many times the scanned area size, and a few times smaller filesizes, among the new tech...).
This said, i may be able to choose some samples at least and use those to drive a point home.
Will ask for directions on how to proceed.

[jackieteh]

Oh, you asked the right questions, in the right way, into the right place.
I on the other had had been too generic: this link is half-hidden in the top right of the nav bar:

https://docs.chaosgroup.com/category/courseware

Specifically for Max:
https://docs.chaosgroup.com/display/CWVRAYMAX

I think you will find most of your answers there, and you'll then be free to discuss what isn't clear in this very forum.
This thread started off oddly enough, have fun digging in!

Hi Lele, i have download all the courseware but cannot open it in my 3ds max 2014