linear workflow 'reloaded' now online

[powerandrubber]

Same problem here. And my renderings don't have enough contrast.

[flipside]

Same problem here. And my renderings don't have enough contrast.

You should give your materials more contrast then. In the old workflow, materials in the mat editor also didn't reflect 100% what they will look like in the final render. You are (without knowing) used to using pretty desaturated colors in your materials. Same for the grayscale issue, it's just a habit.

[fewlo]

Gijs[/quote]

If it is created in linear space (when you have assigned it a linear profile, or when photoshops working space is set to linear and the image has no profile) then you assign it a gamma of 1 in the bitmap loader. All textures that have no color profile and look good on your calibrated monitor, should be assigned the gamma that your monitor is calibrated to.[/quote]

Hi,

How do you determine the working space of PShop is linear?

How do you assign a linear profile to an image, and then save it?

thanks

fewlo

[DF02]

I read about this linear workspace recently from Gijs website and I have some questions regarding this linear workflow.

1.In Max Bitmap Loader, how do we tell Max that image/texture we're inserting has 2.2 gamma? am i correct to choose "Use image's own gamma"?

2.In Max Save Output dialog, am I correct to choose "Override 2.2" to tell Max that I want it to save as 2.2 image?

3.Why in Gijs diagram, Photoshop have to be in Linear Domain? Can I set my Photoshop to work in Gamma Domain, so when touching-up I can see instantly how my image is gonna look like when displayed on web / client computers.

4.In Gijs diagram, it's advisable for Photoshop to work in Linear Domain, only at the end of the process we convert the image to Gamma Domain for public viewing. Well, how do I do that? I mean, how do I convert Linear Domain image into Gamma Domain image? Any actions or tools for this?

5.When I tick “Enable Gamma Correction” is Max Customize/Prefrences/Gamma, all my slots become washed out. What is wrong with this?

6.I read that we're not supposed to use Color Mapping when workin in this linear space, is it true? What about Clamp Output option, should it be ticked or unticked? What this Clamp Output do actually?

7.On Flipside post regarding Gamma Correction 1/0.455, where is this 0.455 number comes from? Just curious ...

Thanks.

[yeohyip]

DFO2,

I'll try to answer the best I can:

1. When loading gamma 2.2 images (looks good on web) you will need to use the "override" and set it to 2.2, or else the texture/image will be washed out. You can also use the color correct plugin for this.

2. Yes, choosing Override 2.2 is correct... but if you're going to work on it in linear space with photoshop, you should use system default gamma to keep it linear.

3. Yes, if you want to work on an image in gamma 2.2 you can, but some filters and adjustments work better in linear (eg unsharp mask). It will be more accurate in linear.

4. You convert from linear to gamma by applying a gamma curve... in this case a gamma 2.2 curve using the curves tool. It is available at one of the links in Gijs tutorial.

5. Nothing wrong with the washing out, that's how it's supposed to look. It will take a while to get used to the wider range of darks... initially I wasn't used to it, but nowadays when I turn of gamma correction it looks like the material slots become too dark

6. I'm not sure about this, usually I'll leave it at linear 1/1 or if I want to burn in the gamma I'll use gamma correction 1/.455. I read that clamp output should be off. If I'm not mistaken it clamps an image to 255 levels of RGB instead of float.

7. I think the 0.455 has to do with the 2.2 gamma curve, but I'm not exactly sure of the math behind it.


From the looks of your diagram, the only thing that needs to be changed is to load in the images at gamma 2.2. If you prefer to work in photoshop in gamma space, then it looks fine.

If you use set color mapping to "gamma correction 1/.455" then you don't need to override with the 3dsmax save output, as gamma correction will applying the gamma curve to the image. The thing to becareful of is making sure the gamma curve is only applied once.


Hope all this helps somewhat.

[DF02]

Thanks, Yeohyip. It really helps.

To my understanding, we're supposed to unticked "Affect Color Selector" in max8, right? coz our Max is working in Linear space, so the color we pick should be linear too, correct?

Now the things is:
with the same max gamma setting, in max 7 color selector is automatically affected to gamma corrected color range. only in max 8 that we can have the option to unticked it. As the result, the same HSV 0/0/128 I choose in max 7 and max 8 have different color.

[DF02]

Ok, I did some test on this. I guess "Affect Color Selector" is just a matter of display. HSV 0/0/128 is still HSV 0/0/128. Having it ticked and unticked will not change the rendering result. Correct?

[DaForce]

not directly no.

But because things will be show slightly differnet you may choose a somewhat different color and that would affect the render. But if you use the same RGB values as before then no.. it will be the same

[jujubee]

DF02 - you are missing a bunch of important items. In order to rpevent people from getting further confused, I'd suggest rereading this thread and experimenting more as you go along. Those issues have all been addressed and summarized before.

[plastic_]

i think this is getting ridiculously complicated.

[DF02]

DF02 - you are missing a bunch of important items. In order to rpevent people from getting further confused, I'd suggest rereading this thread and experimenting more as you go along. Those issues have all been addressed and summarized before.

Sorry. I'd removed my diagram to avoid further confusion to ppl then.
I am confused too. that's why I asked. Apology.

Anyway, hints of those important items i missed would be very helpful.

Thanks.

[jujubee]

No worries - the information is all there - it's just a lot to read through and it's getting worse. And once you do get it, it is very simple to implement. I'm just trying to save us some time from answering questions others (including myself) have already asked and further confusing people.

You've checked out the other major thread relating to this, right? It's at:
http://www.chaosgroup.com/forum/phpB...er=asc&start=0

The main problem I had with your diagram is that you seem to be missing that there's two different methods - from 'applying it on a curve after a render' and using 'gamma color mapping.' Also, there are some diagrams/screenshots throughout the other thread which show proper Max settings. There were some other items you pointed out which we had previously discussed such as Max 7 and Max 8 color selector discrepancies (one is darker than the other.) There's even a post of mine with simplified LWF steps. However, you are so very close to finding your answers - I wouldn't want you to become discouraged.

[stanslavov]

hi,
after all i have one question:

when i setup 3dsmax to G 2,2 and after rendering - how to save my image ? if i save in JPG - image from 3dsmax previwe and JPG are differents

when i save my image how PNG/TIFF, IN SAVE OPTIONS I HAVE GAMMA - when i save in GAMMA=1 - images from render preview and PNG/TIFF are
equals!!!???

IN CONCLUSION :
1.render preview and saved images are differents
2.rendering in VFB have moore options

how method is correct??