VrayBitmap reordering

[racoonart]

I have been writing about this a year or two ago but I think it's time to bring it back on the table again.
To be blunt, using the VrayBitmap sucks! Sorry, I have been trying to use it but I just don't, it annoys me, greatly.
The things I use the most are the things I have to hunt for. The file path is fine but for a reason that I don't understand the standard coordinates rollout is at the bottom, same goes for the rgb primaries.. while ground projection is right at the top. That may have been fine when VrayBitmap was VrayHDRI but if people should consider switching over VrayBitmap that won't do anymore. The order of options should be consistent with the amount it's being used.
I made a mockup of the changes I propose - left is the VrayBitmap layout, right is mine.

1) Coordinates at the top, this is what I change the most and is what the standard max bitmaptexture has on top as well
2) File path, same position as with standard max bitmaptexture, convenient.
3) Color space transfer function and primaries. This is something I need to set for basically every single texture (yes, I could rename all the thousands of bitmaps we have been using in our projects for the last 20 years and have it done automatically... but... no.)
4) Mapping, processing, crop, rgb and alpha source. I would reorder a few things to make it more user friendly but I can live with that
5) viewport setting, udim settings
6) Ground projection. This is something so rarely used that it doesn't make sense to have it right at the top.
7) Time, noise, output.

Could I move the coordinates rollout to the top myself? Yes, but it resets as soon as I click on something else in Slate, so it's practically useless.
That may just be my own opinion but from what I can see nobody else in the studio is using VrayBitmap (apart for hdris) either.

[francomanko]

yeah the layout needs improving, also you cant copy and paste a bitmap file path into the vraybitmap box, it pastes what ever is in your windows clipboard instead.

[glorybound]

Can't crop makes it almost useless for me.

[kosso_olli]

Can't crop makes it almost useless for me.

Um, you can crop in the VrayBitmap?

[fixeighted]

Yeah they updated that recently

[^Lele^]

also you cant copy and paste a bitmap file path into the vraybitmap box, it pastes what ever is in your windows clipboard instead.

I believe what you describe is standard OS behaviour.
Max has no separate copy buffer, and i notice the exact same behaviour in Houdini, for example.
It's a string, it will expect a string to be its input.
You can however drag a bitmap file from Explorer unto the file path box, and the path will be filled in for you.

As for the UI: I'd consider it sufficiently well laid out as it is, particularly as if you'd like the UVs to be at the top, you can simply reorder the rollouts (they stick for me, at least in the standard material editor. Slate is a different kettle of fish on which we have limited influence.).
You'll make more sense of the layout of the various controls, and why they're fine as they are, the second you'll use the environment mapping options available (i.e. any of the non-max coordinates), and stick the map into a dome.
Also, make sure to explore the various mapping source options available, they're endlessly more convenient than fiddling with UVs, if you need variation.

[fixeighted]

EDIT: Oh, weird....didn't notice it worked already....um, has that always been the case or was it an update? Pretty sure it didn't work in the past....

Drag'n'drop bitmaps to it would be very awesome if it appears sometime

[francomanko]

As for the UI: I'd consider it sufficiently well laid out as it is, particularly as if you'd like the UVs to be at the top, you can simply reorder the rollouts.
You'll make more sense of the layout of the various controls, and why they're fine as they are, the second you'll use the environment mapping options available (i.e. any of the non-max coordinates), and stick the map into a dome.
Also, make sure to explore the various mapping source options available, they're endlessly more convenient than fiddling with UVs, if you need variation.

thanks for info, much appreciated.

[racoonart]

As for the UI: I'd consider it sufficiently well laid out as it is, particularly as if you'd like the UVs to be at the top, you can simply reorder the rollouts.
You'll make more sense of the layout of the various controls, and why they're fine as they are, the second you'll use the environment mapping options available (i.e. any of the non-max coordinates), and stick the map into a dome.
Also, make sure to explore the various mapping source options available, they're endlessly more convenient than fiddling with UVs, if you need variation.

We could have a conversation about that if you actually had taken the time to read what I wrote.

[^Lele^]

We could have a conversation about that if you actually had taken the time to read what I wrote.

But i have.
Your case is yours, and for all the points you mentioned, you either refuse to use the provided automations, or just arbitrarily prefer something else, without suggesting a *universal* rule for the proposed change.

[racoonart]

That's what I wrote in my first post:
"Could I move the coordinates rollout to the top myself? Yes, but it resets as soon as I click on something else in Slate, so it's practically useless."
I see you edited your post now. Well. Yes, slate doesn't work... so what do I do then? Just use the simple one and since everything else in VrayBitmap is absolutely fine we don't need to even consider changing something. How about changing VrayBitmap back to VrayHdri then if the environment mapping method is way more important.

You know, I'm in that kind of mood today. Would you do me a favour and not participate in the (few) threads I open? I just generally avoid participating at all because I always end up being annoyed when you reply to something, but today I just can't be bothered to be polite. Being accused of simply "refusing to use the provided automations", whatever that means, and "arbitrarily suggesting something without a rule" is the last straw.

[^Lele^]

I'm stating you're not providing for enough of a universal reason for us to make changes.
That's entirely a technical assessment, i am sorry if it doesn't match your mood, but it's not done in any other spirit than that in which is written.
There are implications in what i wrote i should perhaps have made overt, and which you seem to not be aware of, but of course i'm now not sure you'll want to hear them.

May your day improve, regardless.

[francomanko]

I was rightly or wrongly thinking the vraybitmap was an alternative to max's default bitmap or at least could be used as that. Or is it really just for HDRI?

If that was the intention then putting the 'coord' rollout right at the bottom wasnt best UI practice. Basically means you've added extra 'clicks' and 'scrolls' to an already repetitive workflow. It kind of feels like it was implemented by someone who doesnt change texture tiling 2000's times a day like me

Also if the reorder rollout thing doesn't get saved in both the simple and Slate editor, then its not really a proper implementation or solution, just more clicks.

Finally the point about the copy and paste in the bitmap location, I was just pointing out that it worked with max's bitmap, but not vraybitmap...but yeah the drag and drop works but again having that option would be better.

These are just minor things, but multiplied gets tedious. I mean its already put me off using it for regular bitmaps

[^Lele^]

I was rightly or wrongly thinking the vraybitmap was an alternative to max's default bitmap or at least could be used as that. Or is it really just for HDRI?

It's a general purpose bitmap loader.

If that was the intention then putting the 'coord' rollout right at the bottom wasnt best UI practice. Basically means you've added extra 'clicks' and 'scrolls' to an already repetitive workflow. It kind of feels like it was implemented by someone who doesnt change texture tiling 2000's times a day like me

We have to consider multiple workflows.
Among these, those of people using, f.e., PBR workflows, and in general those which do not change a single tiling property ever, as each texture is built for a specific geometry and UV set.
So, the UV rollout in their way would punish them, which did the job more accurately, and already spent extra time.
One of the many cases we have to take into consideration.

Also if the reorder rollout thing doesn't get saved in both the simple and Slate editor, then its not really a proper implementation or solution, just more clicks.

It is what it is so long as we cannot fix it.
I'll ask the devs (which are reading.) if there are news in this department, but if not, you're welcome to bring the issue up to Autodesk.

Finally the point about the copy and paste in the bitmap location, I was just pointing out that it worked with max's bitmap, but not vraybitmap...but yeah the drag and drop works but again having that option would be better.

I don't think i have understood what copy/pasting you're doing, would you care to expand on it?

These are just minor things, but multiplied gets tedious. I mean its already put me off using it for regular bitmaps

If there are things which make sense to add or change to the vrayBitmap functionalities, we're all up for it.
If however it's a case of non-fixable/addable features (there are a few for which code is out of our hands.), you're welcome to use max bitmaps to do all the setup you need.
You can one-click convert entire scenes to vrayBitmap to get the performance benefits.

[francomanko]

I get what you are saying about taking other workflows into consideration, but PBR before the traditional workflow, seems a bit odd...I mean maybe when uv is not longer a thing and its all triplanar but presumably a lot of people, especially say archviz people, are tiling way more than creating assets with packed uv's,

so copy and paste... in the max bitmap, right clicking the bitmap path, copy, then pasting in another bitmap path..like i say its not a biggy and i know there are plenty of other ways of doing it