Vray Advice for the Eternal Novice...

[ene.xis]

humm...
i remember Natty promissed something like that (a speed modeling video) a long time ago and i think either i missed it or he s owing us that one!

[3ddesign]

This is a great thread. I've been modeling in FormZ for 13 years and in MegaModel 7 years before that. I don't know too many people who can model architectural spaces faster than I can. However, I'm not so stuck in my ways that I can't make a change if something is better than what I currently use. I've recently decided to take another crack at learning to model in Max. But based on prior attempts, I know it is going to be painful. Any words of wisdom or encouragement to get me through the dark times ahead would be appreciated.

Craig

[gilpo]

Ok, lets throw Revit into this discussion. I use it for building. I can design a fancy window once and just click on walls to place it. How would you accomplish this is Max? Or what about a door? Etc...

I would love to be able to model totally in Max, but I think it would take too much time to do the things I can do in Revit very quickly. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to overcome this?

[Clifton Santiago]

Well, as you probably do in those other packages, bring in the 2d cad drawing(s). Use the line command in conjunction 2.5d snaps to "trace" the drawings and start extruding upwards from plan. You may discover in certain places its better to trace off an elevation (like a facade with multiple openings). Avoid using 3d boolean operations (i.e. Complex object, Boolean or ProBoolean) except as a last resort. Eventually you can start setting up user grids (equivalent of Acad UCS) to quickly model orthogonal geometry that is shifted from the world grid. Or you can model things and align them to shifted geometries using the normal align. Eventually you will be comfortable using a variety of methods, spline "skinning", NURBS, poly modeling, lofts, etc. I have a friend that used to model all his architecture with Max NURBS!

[posterus]

good discussion. now all we need to do is talk about cad vs. max while using LWF....just kidding
I guess for me if the project is mostly organic it gets done in max, if its mostly orthogonal, I gotta go with cad.
What are the disadvantages of using booleans?...most of my meshes are created this way. There is a noticable difference in my acad meshes in that the polys are mostly triangles and alot of the triangles share a common vertex. It only looks odd in wireframe though. I've never had problems when rendering...you'd think light leaks would be more common but I get nothing like that.
Revit is pretty sweet. I like how intuitive it is. Like if you modify something everything associated with it updates accordingly. Has anyone used inventor? Often our cases involve detailed complex man made objects. I was looking at the demo and it looks pretty impressive...not sure if its worth $5,200 though.
-joe

[Clifton Santiago]

Well, I've just found that say, when adding voids to an object, such as an opening in a facade, its better in the long run to keep adding closed splines to project the void because its a non-destructive process. If the facade is already a mesh, instead of an extruded spline, you have to perform a boolean subtraction for each window you might add. Eventually it can lead to problems with the mesh, missing faces or flipped normals.

[ene.xis]

If the facade is already a mesh, instead of an extruded spline, you have to perform a boolean subtraction for each window you might add. Eventually it can lead to problems with the mesh, missing faces or flipped normals.

not to mention bad topology wich might produce bad displaced meshes!
and lets not start talking abound coincident planes in cad or revit(i suppuse)...

[Candelero]

If the facade is already a mesh, instead of an extruded spline, you have to perform a boolean subtraction for each window you might add. Eventually it can lead to problems with the mesh, missing faces or flipped normals.

not to mention bad topology wich might produce bad displaced meshes!
and lets not start talking abound coincident planes in cad or revit(i suppuse)...

True ²

Best regards,
nikki Candelero

[nvanherpt]

remember this?

http://www.chaosgroup.com/forum/phpB...t=poll+cad+max

[Clifton Santiago]

No. But its a good thread. How did I miss a 3 page thread? Was that the day after our pub night? Maybe I was still drunk...

[Marshall_Craft]

I glanced over that old post with the survey of who used MAX and who used CAD to model, but I wonder if it's more telling to also question how many people who use MAX to model do this as their primary profession. See, I would love to be able to model in MAX as well as the least skilled professional here, but because I spend 90% of my time drafting and designing (although not much desiging yet) it's extremely difficult for me to find the time to REALLY get into it. SketchUp takes about 10 minutes to learn well enough, which is why middle-aged architects in our office LOOOVE it. If there was the option for a simpler interface within MAX for new users where you do not HAVE to know all the parameter options and settings, then I think a whole lot more people like me would start jumping the fence (no immigration policy implied...) But, I also understand that the parametric abilities of MAX are what makes it so powerful, and it really does require a fairly elite group to become skilled enough to produce the quality of work that's in this forum.

I'm caught between going about as far as I think I can go with CAD modelling and not being able to learn MAX well enough to do an entire project in it.

[visualride]

I've taken a completely backwards route with my modeling career. I started out learning CAD about 16 years ago, and switched to 3ds DOS (pre Max) after a couple years. Last year, when I switched gears in my 3d career to architecture, I discovered Sketchup. Now my workflow goes from CAD to Sketchup for most of the modeling, windows and doors, -to Max for the complex curves and details.

I prefer the simplicity of cutting and placing doors and windows in Sketchup because I can grab from a pre-made library and have auto cutout of the openings, without booleans, and messy cuts. Importing and exporting isn't a deal breaker at all. If I stay with the .dwg format for my export/importing, I have almost no problems.

[VKNT]

Wel, I'm quite late in this discussion but that's because I have vray for only 2 weeks or so.. I fell on this topic while searching the forum for topics regarding vectorworks.

At school we must learn autocad. For projects, we make plans in autocad, we make a model in autocad and then we use max to make renders. I don't like autocad for modeling, because I have to type so much. e.g. Just to move something I have to type 'm'. For a command that is often needed I find this very unpleasant. I have to move my left hand to the other side of the keyboard... As I can read here you all have things set up for best speed. Where can I learn to do such things?

In the previous year I discovered ADT (= architectural desktop). The point of the program being BIM (Building Information Model) It means that you draw a 2d plan, you make a line, and then you attach a style to it. Say a multi-layerd wall in wood. You can add windows and doors and so on. The 3d model is made automatic.
But the setup of the whole thing was such a hassle that I skipped it.

This year I discovered Vectorworks, having the same BIM principle under the hood.
http://www.nemetschek.net/architect/bimwhitepaper.php
I tried a demo of vectorworks last week and I thought it was worth a try because the interface was alot more intuïtive. So I bought a license, dongle is arriving next week I hope.. It's Version 12.

Now the whole point of my little story here is:
- What do you guys think of BIM?
- Anyone having experiences importing .3DS files from vectorworks? (i couldn't try because the demo wouldn't allow me to export)

[Clifton Santiago]

I've been given models imported from vectorworks to DWG which I then imported into MAX. As per usual, I found it easier to re-model the entire thing in MAX and delete the import model as I go, rather than trying to fix all the coplanar faces, flipped faces, 3d splines with no depth, etc. There is no subsititute for native geometry.

I am a 15 year Autocad veteran, but if I were to become an architect again and I needed to choose a CAD package to work in I think I would pick Vectorworks. To me it is the most aesthetically pleasing CAD package, with its WYSIWYG lineweights and shading. Its looks like Illustrator with CAD functionality. I used to visit Carlos Jimenez' office in Houston, and they all used it there. Their CAD drawings were works of art.

[VKNT]

thx for the advice.

I'm very pleased to hear that vectorworks is much like illustrator. My current workflow is: drawing the plan in autocad > plot to .eps > making it look nice in illustrator..

As for modeling. I'll give the Vectorworks BIM models a try in Max anyway. Gonne post my conclusions here then. Might be useful for the architects/students among the forum. Perhaps I should start a new topic for that, bit off topic I guess

If the models do not satisfy, I'll jump right into max modeling