Charging for render nodes

[vlado]

but the increase in costs does now put your software into the same bracket as others

There is that; it does bring us closer to other solutions (though I could still argue that V-Ray has the best price for the features that it offers; at the same time I fully understand that not everyone needs all of those features).

hence us evaluating which shader to invest in for our pipeline (and we may still carry on with Vray). Doesn't detract from your product just giving us the option to chose equally priced products rather than taking the best/cheapest combo (which Vray used to be)

Then perhaps there is hope that we can meet somewhere in the middle and things will work out. Either way, it has been an honor to have you here.

Best regards,
Vlado

[Nicinus]

There is very little. Dr uses your computer as a host, render nodes are off-site, so to speak. 10 DR is 10 network connections - regardless of the number of cores inside.

And any licensing/pricing changes for them will be rebus' issue to deal with.

Thanks. So unlimited cores, which is good, but I still don't get the DR part. So my main machine can connect to 10 render nodes/network connections without additional cost, but I still have to pay for each of those render nodes?? Isn't that the same thing? (I'm afraid I feel very thick now.)

[vlado]

Another question, will this have implications when using services like Rebusfarm? I assume it will be more expensive for them so their fees will increase, but not for me actually sending the job, right?

We have separate license agreements with renderfarms which are not affected by this.

Best regards,
Vlado

[fingerindustries]

Then perhaps there is hope that we can meet somewhere in the middle and things will work out. Either way, it has been an honor to have you here.
o

Thanks Vlado... lets see how we go from here...

[Joelaff]

Another thing to think about is the way that archvis companies have, in recent years - desperate to get the commission - bid stupidly low fees. This has undermined the industry as a whole and has been discussed regularly in the past. Maybe as software costs start to rise, it is time for people to reconsider how 'low they will go'. Obviously there are a lot of factors going on, but I don't think it is healthy to charge so little for what we do. It is highly skilled and so critical to selling multi-million pound/dollar projects that make our developer clients so rich!

But this is the problem with the new pricing. It floods the market with freelancers by lowering their costs, and then it hurts the medium sized studios who have an investment in render farms. So the freelancers have lower expenses and can charge even less, while the medium sized studios, who often make a lot of their money on smaller jobs, end up being priced out of the market because they not only have to pay for their farm, but now have to pay way more for software. Keeping the ENTRY price high would have the effect you are talking about. I think this new pricing only compounds things.

I appreciate that ChaosGroup works hard and make great products, and I want them to make a profit (hell, if they didn't we wouldn't have VRay). I just think the particular pricing structure is very biased against the medium sized studios, with just one or three interactive licenses, but a big render farm. I will contact sales directly, but my reseller is telling me the upgrade will cost as much or more than I listed above.

[vlado]

But this is the problem with the new pricing. It floods the market with freelancers by lowering their costs, and then it hurts the medium sized studios who have an investment in render farms. So the freelancers have lower expenses and can charge even less, while the medium sized studios, who often make a lot of their money on smaller jobs, end up being priced out of the market because they not only have to pay for their farm, but now have to pay way more for software. Keeping the ENTRY price high would have the effect you are talking about. I think this new pricing only compounds things.

This is also a valid viewpoint to consider.

Best regards,
Vlado

[Morbid Angel]

For those who do not want to fork over large amounts of cash for upgrade to render nodes, should consider annual licensing. It is really really reasonable imo, even for small freelancers.

Guys, the problem with previous license scheme was, it would not generate consistent income for the developer (IMO). You have to stay competitive, I support chaos group and its developers and would rather see them charge a bit more, then disappear and we have stuck with some "other renderer".

This is unacceptable to me.

[Christophe.Cot]

If i'm reading this correctly, we can upgrade from 1.5 to 2 for $550 per license now (and get a free upgrade to 3), but if we wait until 3.0 is released, it's going to cost $980 to upgrade straight to 3?

Important correction here : the free upgrade only concerns users who purchased a new/full commercial license, not those who purchased an upgrade to 2.0 during that period.
Check out the notes in bold : http://www.chaosgroup.com/en/2/vray3_beta.html#tab3

And how many render nodes would we get with each if we got the free update from buying 2.0 now?

If you talk about free upgrade, it means we talk about full 2.0 licenses purchased after August 4th. In this case, it will be 1x V-Ray User License and 3x Render Nodes.
For standard upgrade, there are 3 different options - either upgrade only 1 user license + 1 render node, or 1 user license + 6 render nodes or 1 user license + 11 render nodes.
So the final choice depends on the amount of artists you need to have working with V-Ray (meaning using the user license at the same time), and the amount of nodes setup to render using either as DR or Network.

For more detailed pricing info, please check out our pricing tabs -> http://www.chaosgroup.com/en/2/vray3_beta.html#tab3

[Neilg]

Important correction here : the free upgrade only concerns users who purchased a new/full commercial license, not those who purchased an upgrade to 2.0 during that period.

Oooh. that does change things. ha. We were about to dive right in.
Thanks for the clarification!

[lgrohs]

Our new licensing policy provides customers of all ranges and sizes the opportunity to pay only for what they need and use. This way the costs are relative to the user's specific requirements. For artists not requiring additional render nodes, they have they option of purchasing a single license. As a customer's demands for render nodes increase, bundle options are available, and other flexible term licensing options are available when the need arises to scale usage for a particular project.

This way teams of any size are able to add Users without additional render nodes or render nodes without adding users. In this scenario a customer's investment and needs are directly linked.

Best Regards,
Lon

[Joelaff]

For those who do not want to fork over large amounts of cash for upgrade to render nodes, should consider annual licensing. It is really really reasonable imo, even for small freelancers.

Guys, the problem with previous license scheme was, it would not generate consistent income for the developer (IMO). You have to stay competitive, I support chaos group and its developers and would rather see them charge a bit more, then disappear and we have stuck with some "other renderer".

This is unacceptable to me.

I totally get the consistent revenue stream, and that can be a big pain for smaller developers (even as large as Chaos). I would happily go to a subscription format to help with that. But the prices have to be lowered for subscriptions. The developer trades a little on price for the consistency.

I think Eyeon Fusion does this best. Their entry pricing is reasonable, and their $250 a year subscription is reasonable. The software never expires. You can always use the latest version you have, but you can't use any newer builds without a subscription. The builds come out more frequently because the developer has a steady stream of revenue.

Eyeon also charge a ONE TIME fee for render nodes. I think this is completely fair. Charge once, but all render node upgrades are free for life. The thing with per node pricing is it keeps biting you over and over with every upgrade. Every time you want to add a single additional render node now you have to go pay the single unit price for the software (which is way more than volume). Per node pricing could take into account the number of nodes you already have, not just the number you are currently buying (don't know if Chaos is doing this or not).

[Joelaff]

Our new licensing policy provides customers of all ranges and sizes the opportunity to pay only for what they need and use. This way the costs are relative to the user's specific requirements. For artists not requiring additional render nodes, they have they option of purchasing a single license. As a customer's demands for render nodes increase, bundle options are available, and other flexible term licensing options are available when the need arises to scale usage for a particular project.

This way teams of any size are able to add Users without additional render nodes or render nodes without adding users. In this scenario a customers investment and needs are directly linked.
n

To some extent this is true. But we are paying for universal render nodes when we don't use Maya, or anything that uses VRay other than Max. We still end up having to buy a user license for Maya if we need it (right?)

One thing that might make people who have to now pay a lot for render nodes feel better would be to offer some kind of bonus along with having lots of nodes... like make anyone with more than 10 or 20 nodes get their interactive licenses as universal... Or perhaps there is some nice feature you only get with the bigger bundle, etc.

[lgrohs]

To some extent this is true. But we are paying for universal render nodes when we don't use Maya, or anything that uses VRay other than Max. We still end up having to buy a user license for Maya if we need it (right?)

One thing that might make people who have to now pay a lot for render nodes feel better would be to offer some kind of bonus along with having lots of nodes... like make anyone with more than 10 or 20 nodes get their interactive licenses as universal... Or perhaps there is some nice feature you only get with the bigger bundle, etc.

Yes, User Licenses for each application are separate, and universal Render Nodes will work across multiple applications.

Each host application requires its own development, integration, and support, and this is the primary reason User Licenses for each host app are sold separately.
Universal V-Ray Render Nodes 3.0 have the added benefit of being independent of the host application.

We certainly want our customers to be satisfied with the all benefits and value V-Ray 3.0 brings, and we'll continue to work on ways to help make the transition.

Best Regards,
Lon

[flino2004]

I'm not happy with the new policy... Changing this would be the second time the chaos mess it up....the first one was RT, I paid for a useless version and they included it in vray 2 and they didn't recognize a discount to upgrade to vray 2 for all the RT users.... Chaos should consider something in between... I license 5 render nodes or something like that.

[grantwarwick]

I don't think its 'ridiculous' to be upset about a price increase and having to pay more!
If I buy one license I get one render node included for 300 Euros.
If I buy one license and want 6 render nodes its 500 Euros...
SO I have to pay more now, where as before it was included - I don't understand why you are all defending them?! They saw a chance to make more money out of nothing - easy pickings we are...

[deleted text]

This isn't Vray 2.4 any more bro. It's vray 3.0, new software, new features. A general rule is the better things get the more you pay for them. Welcome to earth.

Your argument in a nutshell- "But what do you MEAN this 2013 Lamborghini is MORE expensive than the 1998 version. That's ridiculous!!!"