Gotta Vent

[jujubee]

a distinction between censorship and discrimination needs to be checked.

Agreed.

we are experiencing a back-lash effect from the mispractice of what could be a good moral code that many Christians live by.

You are only refering to one major religion and recent events. Lest we forget 1/3 of the worlds population is Chinese. From my Catholic/Buddhist upbringing, I've been taught these non-Christian believers would go to hell. Personally, I think there's as many good Buddhists as there are Christians. To me, that belief system is very discriminatory. So yes, I do have a big problem with that.

understand and live by the gospel are very unlikely to do any of the extreme things that you have inferred are indicative of religion.

Except to judge others which is contrary to Jesus's teachings. And this is more than often the case with Christian doctrine from my personal experience.

There is a difference between being spiritual and religious.

There is a difference between having religion and moral/humanistic values.

Those three things should never be confused for one another.

[3ddesign]

Jujubee,

I think you are lumping far two many people into a very small group. It sounds like your experience is far different than mine as regards to Christians. I've not experienced the extreme discrimination you speak of and I'm sorry if you have. But I am familiar with the teachings of the Bible as well as the Fuo Jing, I Jing, Loa dz Jing, Koran (to a smaller extent), Teachings of Confucius, Book of Mormon, the Torah, and other religious writings. If the people who profess to belong to any of the religions that adopt these books as a spiritual guide would actually follow their teachings, none of the things you talk of would happen. I think it is wrong to judge religions by the actions of a few of their believers. Rather, if you must judge at all, judge the persons who commit the sin.

BTW, I've met many Buddhists who think Christians will not escape the Great Circle (their version of going to hell), so discrimination can be a two way street.

Craig

[Da_elf]

yeah. it wasnt daforce that wrote that. it was that looser elf dude

[charleyc]

understand and live by the gospel are very unlikely to do any of the extreme things that you have inferred are indicative of religion.

Except to judge others which is contrary to Jesus's teachings. And this is more than often the case with Christian doctrine from my personal experience.

-I am sure most of you know this already, so please don't get upset -

Christianity is based on redemption from sin through Christ (savior). The bible is very quick to point out what God considers sin, so in that respect it is judgmental. However, if you feel there is no sin in your life, what good is a savior? The bible is probably the most discriminating holy book of all time. It says there is only one way to God, period. But it also says, and as is evident throughout the world, it is mans free will to believe it or not. So, if you don't believe it, then why care what it says about you or anyone else. According to the Koran, I am an infidel...ok, so what. According to Mormons I will not reach the highest level of heaven until I convert...ok. According to many other religions, I am not what they say I should be, but I don't care, I believe what I believe.

There are many Christians who do not live by what the bible teaches, be a servant to all, love your neighbor as yourself, be meek and humble, do not lean on the treasures of this earth... and to me this reflects poorly on Christianity, but this is the case with all religions. I know a lot of people who claim they follow a specific religion, yet many of them do not even know the basics of that religion. Many times they can relfect poorly on their religions.

[jujubee]

BTW, I've met many Buddhists who think Christians will not escape the Great Circle

Just as there are many types of Christians, there are many types of Buddhists. People are people the world around. Some Buddhists believe in physical reincarnation and others metaphyscial. Some have distorted the teachings and philosophy as well. Some Bhuddists don't believe in labels and would never call themselves Buddhists. Never once did I say 'agree' with Buddhism. There's also no mention of Taoism in there - there's Taoist philosphy and Taoist religion - two separate things. Very worthwhile reading.

All I essentially said it's wise to have a fair and balanced view of other people's cultures before subscribing to something. Is that too much to ask for? Don't you think it's good to instill your children with world views?

However, if you feel there is no sin in your life, what good is a savior

Again, please don't confuse morals with the end results. Treat others like you would want to be treated and that should generally be a good enough insurance policy when/if you meet your "maker."

"God" is a matter of opinion. To me, it's like believing in the Cookie Monster, Big Bird, Easter Bunny, Santa Claus, and the Tooth Fairy. Is there something out there? Perhaps. Is there a divine creator? Perhaps. All I know is that none of us truly know - and if there is a god he/she/it gave me that reasoning skill wrong or right.

You can say what you want about a tagline - the 'removal' of it brings up a much larger issue people are afraid to get into. And that's a shame that people can't discuss these things openly.

[charleyc]

However, if you feel there is no sin in your life, what good is a savior

I meant that retorically, not aimed at any specific person.

Again, please don't confuse morals with the end results. Treat others like you would want to be treated and that should generally be a good enough insurance policy when/if you meet your "maker."

According to you, but not according to the bible. This is my point, however. Your own belief is just that. What does it matter to you if I believe one thing and you another? I choose to believe the bible, many others in this world do not. So what.
As for morality, it is a choice all people, religious or not have to make in any society. To many people it varies, but most religions have a set of morals that those who believe aught to also beleive. A persons morality should be and is viewed by most as an indicator of their core beleifs. Seperating anyones core beliefs from any other area of their life should be nearly impossible (apparently it is not). Those who do seperate it are generally seen as hypocrites.

"God" is a matter of opinion. To me, it's like believing in the Cookie Monster, Big Bird, Easter Bunny, Santa Claus, and the Tooth Fairy. Is there something out there? Perhaps. Is there a divine creator? Perhaps. All I know is that none of us truly know - and if there is a god he/she/it gave me that reasoning skill wrong or right.

To many people that is not the case. I have seen enough evidence in my own life to believe in God without any doubt. This is the case with many people in many religions.

[beestee]

Is there a divine creator? Perhaps. All I know is that none of us truly know.

I truly know that the watch on my wrist didn't fall toghether spontaneously, and that even if all the bits of it were thrown into a bag and shaken indefinately, it would never fall together correctly in order to function properly. That is even to assume that the bits of the watch would find themselves all in the same location in a controlled environment. What is the reasonable conclusion of how my wristwatch exists? I "truly know" it was constructed by a human.

That in mind, even the smallest insect has the ability to use time in what it does day to day, among other abilities that it uses to sustain itself and propagate the species.

I could tell you the logical conclusion to the question of intellegent design by a divine creator, but I don't think I would need to.

*edit* The only reason for so many different views on these matters is that one being has planted a deviation of the truth(a lie), and it has spurned on to become a confusing mess with the intention to mislead the majority of mankind.

Demand an explanation for things you don't understand from your source, and if your source is unwilling or unable to answer those questions then I think you would need to question the reliability of that source. There is an explanation for everything happening in the world today, the purpose of everything, and what it means for us.

[siliconbauhaus]

handbags at the ready again ladies :P

[olitech]

I could tell you the logical conclusion to the question of intellegent design by a divine creator, but I don't think I would need to.

Let's just say...Amen to that bro!

[jujubee]

lol. Holy Naan!

[glyph]

You can say what you want about a tagline - the 'removal' of it brings up a much larger issue people are afraid to get into. And that's a shame that people can't discuss these things openly.

what is it about the discussion right here that is not an open discussion about that?

I truly know that the watch on my wrist didn't fall together spontaneously

are you referring to Dawkins - The Blind Watchmaker ? I think he's a thought fascist but he makes a good argument

The only reason for so many different views on these matters is that one being has planted a deviation of the truth(a lie), and it has spurned on to become a confusing mess with the intention to mislead the majority of mankind.

I have read before that the Yezidi people of northern Iraq give respect to the figure alluded to above, as he was prepared to question the orthodox beliefs (but after a diverting trawl through internet am not sure if that is mere rumour) (and I certainly dont want to raise the spectre of d. worship..)

Doesnt Tibetan Buddhism teach that beliefs should be rigorously examined and tested without falling back on rote knowledge?

I do see the battleground as being betweeen people of science and people of 'faith' (for want of a better tag)

I was really pleased to meet a twin recently who described how he woke up in shock one night - his brother had just had a serious car accident - and so, since I trust him, that implies there is a definite something outside our understanding, that communicates without waves or particles [no I'm not trying to justify spurious "quantum mechanics god" books]

and once that door is open we must return to accepting there are still things of which we know nothing

[mmikee]

I still dont know for sure what I believe. But the evolution theory breaks
apart at the very beginning. To believe it as it has been layed out here
in the states, I have to believe that someting came from nothing. That
goes against every scientific theory that I have ever read. I have read and seen alot of of discussion about Darwins theory. Some of it makes
alot of sense. But it falls apart when you go to the very begining. I dont
know what I believe about creation, but it is certainly not Darwins version
of evolution.

Is there a divine creator? Perhaps. All I know is that none of us truly know.

I totally agree.

[DaForce]

And just to break up the mood a little while still on topic

http://video.google.it/videoplay?doc...rting+preacher



Also did anyone notice how much the simpsons ripped into religion last seaons... was like every episodes nearly

[beestee]

@ glyph - It is easy to see how a wealth of misinformation can construe a correct idea, thought, or belief into something totally incorrect due to a little human error. Of course pieces of correct information will be found in every religion, simply because they are all based on one central source of information, whether they claim to be or not. It is the tangents from that central source that we have to beware of. One misleading tangent in a religion that does not harmonize with that central source is enough for me to disregard that religion as false.

Of course there are things that are not meant to be understood, but it doesn't mean that there is not an explanation for why that is.

All I know is that I am glad that I am not at all confused about my future

@ olitech - mmmmmmm...those are some delicious looking pancakes.

[studioDIM]

Again, please don't confuse morals with the end results. Treat others like you would want to be treated and that should generally be a good enough insurance policy when/if you meet your "maker."

According to you, but not according to the bible.

In the new testament, a LATE appendix to the bible, Jesus Christ said with NO possible reason of doubt over the meaning "Love thy neighbour as you love yourself."
It was no opinion, it was a commandment.
I say Juju scores one for eyesight, at least.
What's left of it, i wonder, in the world's churches, which accept state propaganda and justify the ends of that through distortion of the sacred texts?
Moses, ten commandments: "Thou shalt not kill"
It NEVER made a distinction.
What's a crusade, then?
Past and present.

Jesus, to Peter, in one of the worst moments of Jesus' own life:
"Put up the sword into the sheath: the cup which the Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?"

Or again, Matthew 5:38 through to 5:42

"Ye have heard that it was said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: but I say unto you, resist not him that is evil: but whosoever smiteth thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if any man would go to law with thee, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also. And whosoever shall compel thee to go one mile, go with him two. Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away."

So the nasty arabs bomb your twin towers, and a whole nation, under the banner of a Jesus chosen (in his PUBLIC personal view, of course) president, goes and bombs them to smitherens for years?
Is there no RELIGIOUS conscience to scream out loud, and move the faithful christians which meditate on the bible to protest on the streets?

I either have the wrong bible, or something here doesn't quite squares up.

Lele