3dsmax 2017

[glorybound]

I am also having issues with the selection tool. Basically, I can't window select, unless I get the entire object in the window. So, the selection tool isn't seeing edges.

[BBB3]

Hey BBB3, could you tell in what specific cases are you having crashes, or what is actually broken so far in 2017? Me and my company have been "forced" to rent some 2017 licenses, and i'm afraid sooner or later we'll all have to transition to it.

Things i found so far that don't work:

- Certain snapping options are broken
- UV editor is slower than 2015
- Physical Cam is a mess
- 3dsmax settings reset bug is even more common now
- Backburner adapter gives some weird errors sometimes
- Weird new UI (that light grey on darker grey doesn't make the overall reading easier)

Good things:

- Edit Poly sub element is really fast
- IPR with Vray nightlies
- Really fast installation
- Alembic options were updated + Alembic cache

I haven't used 2017 enough to have a rounded opinion on it. The reason is the constant crashes--generally when modeling in sub-object mode while in orthographic view and using snapping. These crashes never start straight away, only after a scene has a few hundred thousand polys. But then, they come faster and faster until Max crashes roughly every ten minutes. Also selections in sub-object mode seem broken. For instance, using the square lasso tool will only select some edges. Sometimes just a few will remain unselected, other times just a few will get selected. Very inconsistent and a complete deal-breaker when doing hardcore modeling.
To date, I have received no useful feedback from AD, which is strange because I've generally felt that their customer relation guys had been very active and helpful on the AD forums. But I'm now resigned to skipping 2017 and hope that things get fixed in 2018.
As for firing the development teams: I don't know, but it feels plausible. My background is actually in financial journalism and I completely get how AD management works and thinks. Their first duty is to shareholders and a big priority is to keep analysts upbeat on the stock. Analysts don't understand or care about the tech. They focus only on the figures. Which is why rental was such a stroke of genius. It allows you to do something incredible: To retain, and perhaps even grow, your user base even if they are deeply unsatisfied with the product. Of course, as with Adobe, it may actually mean a temporarily dip in revenue during the transition (because of the need to offer attractive prices at the beginning), but you can recover that later when you regain pricing power thanks to the bigger captive audience. In the meantime, you can smooth out the hit on your P&L by cutting costs aggressively. Putting myself in their shoes, it would make a lot of sense for me to cut R&D and hire more marketing muscle.

[Vizioen]

You mean the render settings? I am modeling in a scene where the render setting keeps resetting to mental ray! Is this the new AD way to push for that antique render engine?

I think he means the 3ds max settings themselves. This has been a major bug for all releases. Apparently its worse in 2017.

[jstrob]

There is also a bug that I thought was corrected a long time ago: when in a edit poly modifier, ctrl-click on remove edge loop does not remove the points!

edti: I just checked again and the bug was also in max 2016... (it only works on editable poly not the edit poly modifier)

[jstrob]

- 3dsmax settings reset bug is even more common now

You mean the render settings? I am modeling in a scene where the render setting keeps resetting to mental ray! Is this the new AD way to push for that antique render engine?

[LudvikKoutny]

Hm... that
Hm.... that's only 17mil mesh. I even had 150mil mesh in 2017 and was faster than that.
Did you check your graphics card driver?

Always running latest nVidia one. I have some other lot more complex scenes, where it is not slower, but in this one particular, it is. It may be for example that there are high poly meshes that are just one element, or something like that. Too many smoothing groups... I don't really know, and it's easier for me to just not use 2017 than to dig into it and find what's wrong.

EDIT: Actually, false alarm here. Surprisingly enough, it seems it is not Autodesk's mistake this time. I've measured GPU memory usage in that scene, which in 2017 fills all 4GB of my GPU memory, where as in 2016, it stays at around 2.8GB. The thing is that I am one of those who have fallen victim to nVidia's GTX970 3.5GB memory scam, so it's just my GPU dropping most of my performance due to that last 0.5GB being used in Max 2017. :/

[gandhics]

Hm... that

It's faster in sub-object mode and generally faster in some specific scenes, but they now offload a bit more stuff on GPU and it can overflow in some scenes, like in my case:
https://youtu.be/LlDBhxdXJBE

It was hell to even get this to record, because Max 2017 crashed 4 out of 5 times when trying to convert high poly v-ray proxy to editable mesh

I have to agree with Bertrand that this is the worst version since 2010/2011. Not because it would not bring good new improvements, but because it's already half a year and 3 service packs later, and some of us still can not use it to do even basic things. There are really odd things going on in the viewport, yet any of the 2017 service packs have not addressed it properly. From what I've heard, Autodesk has fired most of the nitrous team :/

Hm.... that's only 17mil mesh. I even had 150mil mesh in 2017 and was faster than that.
Did you check your graphics card driver?

[jstrob]

If anyone get that bug that I had with render nodes, I found a solution:
I uninstalled every max 2017 plugins and component one by one and then it succeeded and I could reinstall max and SP3 too!

So I will still give it a chance! I'm so stubborn!

[LudvikKoutny]

Is it true? This is one of that thing I really can't understand.
They changed the viewport with big announcements years ago and the results seems better year by year...and now...they fired them and they stop the development... I hope it's a joke....in this way they're digging the hole with their hands...

Think to the next FANTASTIC, REVOLUTIONARY viewport improvements...what about "credibility"?
How many years(or months) later they'll stop the development?

Again...I hope it's just an assumption...

Well, it's a rumor so I should probably have written "from what i've heard" in front of that, or something like that. Actually... I will edit my message to include that. Non the less, some reliable people mention in this large thread: http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthre...1411515&page=1 that the Shanghai team was let go. And from what I know, those guys did mainly nitrous improvements, especially those that make 2017 viewport faster.

[bardo]

Most likely because Autodesk has fired most of the nitrous team :/

Is it true? This is one of that thing I really can't understand.
They changed the viewport with big announcements years ago and the results seems better year by year...and now...they fired them and they stop the development... I hope it's a joke....in this way they're digging the hole with their hands...

Think to the next FANTASTIC, REVOLUTIONARY viewport improvements...what about "credibility"?
How many years(or months) later they'll stop the development?

Again...I hope it's just an assumption...

[LudvikKoutny]

I can not say it is the worst version ever. I have been using it in production since the release, and it is very stable so far. And in my opinion they have done a good job making things faster. The viewport performance has been increased significantly, especially with many objects and manipulations in subobject level on high poly geometry. Try Maya, now that's a nightmare!

It's faster in sub-object mode and generally faster in some specific scenes, but they now offload a bit more stuff on GPU and it can overflow in some scenes, like in my case:
https://youtu.be/LlDBhxdXJBE

It was hell to even get this to record, because Max 2017 crashed 4 out of 5 times when trying to convert high poly v-ray proxy to editable mesh

I have to agree with Bertrand that this is the worst version since 2010/2011. Not because it would not bring good new improvements, but because it's already half a year and 3 service packs later, and some of us still can not use it to do even basic things. There are really odd things going on in the viewport, yet any of the 2017 service packs have not addressed it properly. From what I've heard, Autodesk has fired most of the nitrous team :/

[Ihno]

It's good for sales. Sales will go down 2-3 times if they release new version every 2-3 years instead of every year. Imagine the shareholders' reaction when told that sales will go down 2-3 times.

I dont think that this will still be the chase with rent only licenses. We dont have a choice once all our maintain subscriptions are expired. I think they'll stop this once nobody owns the current max version.
If not the half of the max users move away from ad because the price got roughly multiplied by 3-4 which is a crime imo. Than they'll maby move back to oldscool subscription or decrease the price a lot.

[Vizioen]

Shareholders ?

It's good for sales. Sales will go down 2-3 times if they release new version every 2-3 years instead of every year. Imagine the shareholders' reaction when told that sales will go down 2-3 times.

In my opinion, the yearly releases should be made free SPs the same way as Chaosgroup does and major versions every 2-3 years at least! I would hardly consider the current situation with each new year a release a "version". More like an update or SP.

Well if they continue down this path, they don't have to worry about shareholders anymore. Chaosgroup doesn't release a major version each year, each SP is packed with new features or fixes, same as Rhinoceros3D, etc etc If they can do it, why not them?

Imo the best software companies are the ones that don't release a new version every year. Lots of people are looking at other packages to do their bidding because of their incompetence. Hopefully they'll wake up just in time and start doing things right. You can not call these SPs, SPs that barely fix what is broken in the first place. I think the whole 3dsmax team consists of 1 intern that only works there mondaymornings after a whole weekend of binge drinking.

[Alex_M]

I still wonder why the fck they HAVE to release a version each fcking year, take some goddamn time to polish your product and let the people restore their faith in it. Look at Rhinoceros 3D. While not the same at least they don't go backwards when they release a new version every few years.

It's good for sales. Sales will go down 2-3 times if they release new version every 2-3 years instead of every year. Imagine the shareholders' reaction when told that sales will go down 2-3 times.

In my opinion, the yearly releases should be made free SPs the same way as Chaosgroup does and major versions every 2-3 years at least! I would hardly consider the current year-release cycle a major "version". More like an update or SP. I would be more than happy to pay the current full upgrade price if they did 2-3 times better job at development OR released every 2-3 years instead of each year.

[NicoC]

I still wonder why the fck they HAVE to release a version each fcking year.

Shareholders ?