Charging for render nodes

[michaelwbell]

wtf man, you're an idiot or just severely emotional.

Dear Grant,

I am a big fan of your work and respect your opinion.

I believe fingerindustries also makes a very valid point though.
If you are a user who has invested heavily in hardware or in cloud servers and are using your Vray 2.4 licence to render out to 60 render nodes...the Vray 3.0 node licensing change is a big issue worth being emotional about.

This isn't Vray 2.4 any more bro. It's vray 3.0, new software, new features. A general rule is the better things get the more you pay for them. Welcome to earth.
Your argument in a nutshell- "But what do you MEAN this 2013 Lamborghini is MORE expensive than the 1998 version. That's ridiculous!!!"

I don't think this is a correct summary of the situation.
Vray 3.0 is SAME software with NEW Features.
IF this was infact a completely NEW software (Vray 1.0) and THIS was their node policy from day 1, then you would be correct in the Lambo comparison.
But this is the same software we have used and incorporated into our workflow and budgets and now the rug is being pulled very dramatically.

I think the answer is somewhere in-between these 2 extreme points of view. I think this change is way too much too quickly - from UNLIMITED nodes down to 1 Node only.

[PIXELBOX_SRO]

lol

this will be a loooooooong thread.

Come on guys, just read the new policy a pricing neatly. There is option for everyone. And remember you really got a lot over the years for free.
The developement and the support has to be financed from something.

[fingerindustries]

wtf man, you're an idiot or just severely emotional.

Nice, I see we are descending into profanities now - thanks for the compliment. It is my opinion as a business owner and clear it will cost me more. I will not rise to your idiotic, pointless comments.

[vlado]

Yep, guys please refrain from name calling (esp. to other users). We realize this is a hot topic for everyone, but let's at least try to be polite to each other.

Best regards,
Vlado

[Dariusz Makowski (Dadal)]

Oh man conversation heats up ! I go get popcorn this is going to be quite a ride =D

[AlexP]

But this is the problem with the new pricing. It floods the market with freelancers by lowering their costs, and then it hurts the medium sized studios who have an investment in render farms. So the freelancers have lower expenses and can charge even less, while the medium sized studios, who often make a lot of their money on smaller jobs, end up being priced out of the market because they not only have to pay for their farm, but now have to pay way more for software. Keeping the ENTRY price high would have the effect you are talking about. I think this new pricing only compounds things. .

This is an important point.

[alainfx]

This isn't Vray 2.4 any more bro. It's vray 3.0, new software, new features. A general rule is the better things get the more you pay for them. Welcome to earth.

Your argument in a nutshell- "But what do you MEAN this 2013 Lamborghini is MORE expensive than the 1998 version. That's ridiculous!!!"

Yes, each year new products (or new versions of existing products) get higher prices, it is called inflation :
Inflation in the USA : +1.4% over the last year.
Inflation in Europe : +1.2% over the last year.

Well, let's look at VRay's inflation :
To buy 1 VRay GUI and 10 Render license : +162% ( (2550-970) / 970)
To upgrade 1 VRay GUI and 10 Render license : +250% ( (700-200) / 200)

Here is the math, from another thread :

The new licensing scheme :
http://www.chaosgroup.com/en/2/vray3_beta.html#tab3

Let's say I need to buy this :
1 license of VRay GUI.
10 licenses of "Network Rendering" (from maya's render.exe) and "Distributed Rendering".

Price if I choose VRay2 : 970 euros.
Price if I choose VRay3 : 2550 euros (750+180*10).

(in that example I get 11 DR in VRay3, instead of 10 DR in VRay2)



And now the upgrade price, for the same "1 GUI + 10 Render" licences :
From VRay 1.5 to VRay 2.0 : 200 euros
From VRay 2.0 to VRay 3.0 : 700 euros

Why do I make comparison using the 1 GUI + 10 Render scheme ? (instead of 1+1 for example)
Because it's the scheme that fits most companies I know.

[neil3d]

It does seem a shame that they have decided to change their unique selling point. Years ago we evaluated all the latest render engines including Brazil engine... but went down the Vray road as the main point was unlimited render nodes.

Now all change, maybe its time to review and re-look at mental ray, free with our main software 3dsmax and unlimited render nodes.

I do think Vray may have hired Brazil's marketing director.....

[Morbid Angel]

Now all change, maybe its time to review and re-look at mental ray, free with our main software 3dsmax and unlimited render nodes.

Please do consider MR or other renders. You will learn quickly that vray is worth every $. Every time I have to use another render, like MR, without looking at costs, I am quickly reminded why I chose vray.

[raymarcher]

Now all change, maybe its time to review and re-look at mental ray, free with our main software 3dsmax and unlimited render nodes.

I do think Vray may have hired Brazil's marketing director.....

Yes, and please share the benchmarks on youtube used for your review .

[Christophe.Cot]

Hi alainfx,
Thanks for sharing your concerns and point of view with us. We appreciate.
I understand your reasoning here even though I am not quite sure that linking inflation and rendering software is relevant knowing how the inflation is calculated. This is another topic anyway

As many other users, you do a quick comparison and get scared by the appearance. That's quite normal and we understand that.

I believe however that by doing that we might miss a very important aspect :

The huge community and tremendous success around V-Ray is surely not the result of "render nodes" - it's all about V-Ray, it's amazing feature sets, user experience and most importantly about the constant innovation it brings to enable you to be an artist and create what your imagination dictates.

Since V-Ray was introduced, Chaos Group is providing tons of side and free benefits - free service pack, free support, access to the developer through a very active forum, access to nightly build,... the list is quite long.
The 1.5 version was supported for free for about 10 years and still today you can get a dedicated build of V-Ray 1.5 for 3dsMax 2013.

We are so proud to bring you V-Ray 3.0 - the amount of innovation is incredible and we cannot wait to see what you as an artist will be able to do with it.
Take a second to see what was done so far with what we had - pretty incredible, isn't it ?

Now can you imagine what we will be able to do next ?
Our roadmap is full of ideas we want to explore and with this new licensing it simply opens the doors to even more innovation and technologies.

When we think about V-Ray 3.0, we don't think about comparing with the past because we prefer looking at the future to continue focusing on innovation.

By sharing your concerns here, you clearly prove (like everyone) that you do care a lot of V-Ray, and we do care a lot too.
We are convinced that you will love this new release and that this new licensing will give us the possibility to deliver you the best solution ever.

[Tony_Morev]

I’ve already voiced my opinion on the licensing in the beta forum. So, not to repeat myself, I’ll just say that Chaos’s notorious fairness to the customers had gone out of the window with this new pricing.

The reason Chaos hasn’t had a paid release every year is because they were busy porting the software rather than developing it. To assume that “the new pricing will allow adequate further development” is a poor excuse. V-ray is a tool not an investment, sell stock in the company to fund the development, if needed.

I haven’t tried 3.0 yet, but something tells me that playing the catch-up game on the new technology arena is never a recipe for success, and that’s exactly what Chaos had to do seeing how emerging rendering technologies start to outpace V-ray. I’ll humbly accept the new pricing if 3.0 shows that V-ray truly stays ahead of the game like it used to. If not, I hope Chaos learns from Netflix and takes the users’ reaction to their new pricing to heart before it’s too late.

[Dariusz Makowski (Dadal)]

I’ve already voiced my opinion on the licensing in the beta forum. So, not to repeat myself, I’ll just say that Chaos’s notorious fairness to the customers had gone out of the window with this new pricing.

The reason Chaos hasn’t had a paid release every year is because they were busy porting the software rather than developing it. To assume that “the new pricing will allow adequate further development” is a poor excuse. V-ray is a tool not an investment, sell stock in the company to fund the development, if needed.

I haven’t tried 3.0 yet, but something tells me that playing the catch-up game on the new technology arena is never a recipe for success, and that’s exactly what Chaos had to do seeing how emerging rendering technologies start to outpace V-ray. I’ll humbly accept the new pricing if 3.0 shows that V-ray truly stays ahead of the game like it used to. If not, I hope Chaos learns from Netflix and takes the users’ reaction to their new pricing to heart before it’s too late.

U want them to sell staked in company? And AD will buy them out. Then u get AD next to vray logo and at the end AD subscriptions and 400% price increase. Is that what you want?

[alainfx]

I'm wondering what caused that price increase, what changed this year, compared to last year ?

If you have to double the price of a product, it's because something you pay has also doubled :
-Salaries were raised by 100% ?
-Taxes exploded ?
-You had to move to a bigger building, which turns out to be too expensive ?
-???

I'm sure you have a reason to do that, could you please elaborate ?

[Donald2B]

I’ve already voiced my opinion on the licensing in the beta forum. So, not to repeat myself, I’ll just say that Chaos’s notorious fairness to the customers had gone out of the window with this new pricing.

The reason Chaos hasn’t had a paid release every year is because they were busy porting the software rather than developing it. To assume that “the new pricing will allow adequate further development” is a poor excuse. V-ray is a tool not an investment, sell stock in the company to fund the development, if needed.

I haven’t tried 3.0 yet, but something tells me that playing the catch-up game on the new technology arena is never a recipe for success, and that’s exactly what Chaos had to do seeing how emerging rendering technologies start to outpace V-ray. I’ll humbly accept the new pricing if 3.0 shows that V-ray truly stays ahead of the game like it used to. If not, I hope Chaos learns from Netflix and takes the users’ reaction to their new pricing to heart before it’s too late.

If you think ChaosGroup is "playing the catch-up game" I completely disagree. I would just have to repeat what Dmitry(Morbid Angle) stated above. I use the "competition" and there is no way I will use them unless forced to. They prevent me from doing my job to the highest level, and that's what our clients pay for.