workstation unusable while rendering - was much better in the past.

[Vizioen]

I'm also having more and more freezing problems. Rendering (although not frozen) feels a bit more sluggish. I've contacted ADSK with all the information I had and opened a ticket, so far no answer that can help me.

But it's weird that the deferred loading of plugins thing helped for a little while so maybe we should all list our plugins and cross reference so we can at least rule some stuff out? I don't want to point the finger at Chaos here.

Here are mine:
- Chaos Vray
- Chaos PhoenixFD
- Chaos Scatter
- Chaos Corona
- Itoo ForestPack
- Itoo RailClone
- Itoo Glue
- GrowFX
- Pulze SceneManager
- TyFlow
- FloorGenerator
- MultiTexture
- BerconNoise
- Quick Tiles
- ColorCorrect
- Substance
- Arnold
- Retopology Tools
- Unreal DataSmith Exporter

These might be scripts or scripted plugins but not sure:
- JokerMartini PlanePlus
- RebusFarm
- Megascans
- Connecter

[Vizioen]

So as a way of testing a little without having to reinstall my whole OS and all my software I just uninstalled vray on all my Max versions. To test if the lag is present without a Vray Installation.

When opening a vray scene I'm met with an array of errors (which is normal of course) about missing plugins.

But one error kept popping up, whatever I did, for instance some basic viewport navigiation I kept getting a popup of an error of a script:

---------------------------
MAXScript MacroScript Error Exception
---------------------------
-- Type error: Call needs function or class, got: undefined
-- File name: C:\Users\Ashley\AppData\Local\Autodesk\3dsMa x\2022 - 64bit\ENU\usermacros\VRay-vrayCameraLister.mcr
-- Line number: 32
---------------------------
OK
---------------------------

Not sure if that has to do with anything of course, but it's a bit weird that he keeps trying to 'run' this script. When I reinstalled Vray I'm now presented with this, although I didn't touch this script.

---------------------------
MAXScript
---------------------------
The file 'VRay-vrayCameraLister.mcr' has been modified outside the application. Should it be reloaded?
---------------------------
&Yes &No
---------------------------

_______________________________

Now for my findings. With Vray uninstalled I didn't have any lag when saving or opening scenes when more than one 3ds Max instance is open. When one Max instance was saving or opening a file, I could navigate my viewport and do any action without much delay in the other Max, or browse the internet / explore my files / ....

I've tested this for about 10 minutes, I know this requires more testing but I also have work to do. But maybe someone here can try if uninstalling / reinstalling vray alleviates their problems they're having.

I'm not saying Vray is the culprit here, because last time with disabling the deferred plugin loading thing I also didn't experience any lag anymore for a few days, so time will tell. But this is just all so very strange.

[Pixelcon]

My god this is incredibly frustrating. It seems to fluctuate between bearable and just totally killing productivity...
Do you have an easy way to find out which 3rd party scripts and/or plugins one might have installed?

Edit: Just tried renaming my VRay-vrayCameraLister.mcr so it isn't loaded and testing. Will report back.
Edit: 2. Nope no good. I will continue this on the AD forums.

[^Lele^]

We're reading you, and still can't repro any of this.
It's frustrating for us as well: if it reproed at least once, we'd be able to profile it.

[Pixelcon]

Is there any point in you having a remote session with my workstation?
I was offered one previously but refused because I wasn't sure which problem I was suffering from, but who knows, maybe it's worth Chaos just having a poke around and seeing if they can prove it's not Vray's fault?

[Pixelcon]

Vizioen do you have Sini Forensic installed?

Can you try scanning which ever files are open in your max instances and seeing if there are a heap of animation layers present?
If I merge in a Forestpack which brings in with it ~18,000 animation layers, and I delete the Forestpack and all associated models and assets, my max does the usual slow save/load/close. But if I then clear the animation layers it reverts back to a smooth experience...

[Vizioen]

Vizioen do you have Sini Forensic installed?

Can you try scanning which ever files are open in your max instances and seeing if there are a heap of animation layers present?
If I merge in a Forestpack which brings in with it ~18,000 animation layers, and I delete the Forestpack and all associated models and assets, my max does the usual slow save/load/close. But if I then clear the animation layers it reverts back to a smooth experience...

I don’t have anything sini installed but I have cleaned every asset (25.000+ models) I have, completely free of tracknotes, animation layers,.. and every once in a while I clean my working files as well so I would be surprised that there’s animation layers left. But I will check when I’m back on monday to be sure.

[Joelaff]

I thought it seemed to be worse when I had the VFB open, especially if it was open in both instances of Max. Anyone else see this?

I know the Chaos folks had nailed down an earlier slowdown to some Microsoft Components being used in the VFB (Something hotfix 2 or 3 resolved I believe). Maybe it is still related to that. I am frequently seeing actual mouse slowdowns/stutters.

I am going to try the latest studio drivers for the 4090.

[Vizioen]

Well I have some news from ADSK, I opened a case, and this was their answer:

Your request has been reviewed and assigned an official code in our development database, BSPR-109731: Multiple instances of 3ds Max can reduce save speed. I did receive your email and the additional information allowed me to log this!

I will now plan to close this case on Monday.

Not sure what they meant with the closing, but I asked.

[Vizioen]

And some more, turns out that it's hyperthreading causing the issue. Disabling SMT in bios should alleviate the problems, but that kind of defeats the purpose for rendering...

That's correct, SMT (simultaneous multi-threading) threadrippers have been seen to cause this issue. There are other hardware situations that experience the issue as well. I would suggest alternative machines to that end, or by disabling SMT on boot.

I wonder if the saving is the only thing suffering from having SMT enabled. Maybe the lag that some here have also has some underlying SMT optimization problem?

[Joelaff]

Alternate machines, like Intels that render more slowly? Yeah, disabling HT seems like not a good option. But that is honestly what it feels like to me. GUIs were all better before HT.

[^Lele^]

GUIs were all better before HT.

You mean Qt? (ok, savage.)

[^Lele^]

Is there any point in you having a remote session with my workstation?
I was offered one previously but refused because I wasn't sure which problem I was suffering from, but who knows, maybe it's worth Chaos just having a poke around and seeing if they can prove it's not Vray's fault?

I can point Support to this thread, if you wish.
Or you can open a support ticket and point them to the thread.
They are likely reading us anyway.

[Pixelcon]

Well over on the Autodesk forum it seems like it's been identified as a problem with threadrippers so now the ball is back in Adesk's court I suppose.

[Vizioen]

Yeah, but I made a quick test yesterday with SMT off ( I used Ryzen Master tool to turn it off), and I still had lag issues. So I give up, if they can reproduce it, they should be able to fix it without any more of my input and time wasted.