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  • The big part of success of Fstorm is that it defaults to a digital camera rather than neutral linear computer renderer. I've tested it briefly, and tone mapping settings default to average camera response curve, DoF settings default to camera objective, and bloom/glare settings default to secondary optical effects of average DSLR camera.

    Everytime I tried to do same with V-Ray, I have unfortunately failed. The weakest point seems to be V-Ray's lens effects, that just do not look real no matter what i try. Real glare and bloom has not only intensity, but also size based on intensity of source image highlight. V-Ray lens effects has constant glare size regardless of intensity, and instead of adding glare on top of the image, it simply blends blurry image with base image, giving you very hazy and dreamy look even when using very slight glare or bloom effect. (I do realize that is by design, to prevent increasing HDR image intensity beyond what it really is, but I would much rather take realistic glare that I can use on my final image, instead of fake looking one, that I can't, even at the cost of messing up HDR spots on my image.)

    Another issue is absence of photographic tone mapping. Physical camera exposure controls that have this partial functionality (something similar to filmic tone mapping) are not supported by V-Ray. V-Ray luckily supports LUTs, that can load arbitrary camera response LUT, but those are not saved out with image. Sure you can do all of this in post, but it really changes your workflow, if you build a scene looking at it through camera objective rather than neutral linear renderer.

    Next one is that V-Ray still defaults to Blinn BRDF and no internal reflections for refractive materials. That alone means that if you are user, that is not aware of advanced BRDF choices in V-Ray (you are for example just artsy guy, not tech oriented type), your Fstorm shading will come out a lot nicer. GGX reflections and highlights will look a bit deeper and crisper, and bunch of wine glasses on table will look a lot more detailed and interesting with internal reflections enabled.

    So it all comes down to people doing just a few quick test, and getting very pretty results. It's love on first sight effect. It's not just about if it is possible to do with your tool, it's about how easy it is to do, what people often value more. Most of them do not even know you could do most of it (not all though, due to the limitations in V-ray lens effects) in V-Ray. They just run a renderer that has good defaults, and they see something that looks better, more pleasing to the eye. It takes their usual work, their current skill level, and pushes the output quality little bit higher without any effort from their side. And anyone who is ambitious when it comes to output quality is willing to do anything to push quality even 5-10% further, even if it means completely switching to a different renderer.

    I am sure some regular good old people will come in the defense, using the "Just learn to use your renderer" argument, but the thing is, that these days most people don't want to, and frankly, don't even need to. If you can achieve 8/10 quality out of the box with minimal effort spent learning and digging into deep technical stuff, why would you take a lot more time consuming and sometimes headache-inducing path to arrive to the same 8/10 quality mark?
    Last edited by LudvikKoutny; 22-07-2016, 03:47 AM.

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    • thats some very reasonable arguments there Recon
      Martin
      http://www.pixelbox.cz

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      • Well since we are talking about GPU renderers, the new Pascal Titan X was just revealed.... what a disapointment

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        • Originally posted by Donfarese View Post
          Well since we are talking about GPU renderers, the new Pascal Titan X was just revealed.... what a disapointment
          http://www.pcworld.com/article/30988...r-monster.html

          why?
          Martin
          http://www.pixelbox.cz

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Recon442 View Post
            I am sure some regular good old people will come in the defense, using the "Just learn to use your renderer" argument, but the thing is, that these days most people don't want to, and frankly, don't even need to. If you can achieve 8/10 quality out of the box with minimal effort spent learning and digging into deep technical stuff, why would you take a lot more time consuming and sometimes headache-inducing path to arrive to the same 8/10 quality mark?
            You're quite right...but at the end...I think it's just an illusion...because when you'll output the same image quality of everyone...someone will ask you to do more to lift up the quality bar...and you have to study...and sometimes could be something "techy", sometimes "arty".

            And I think that this is true for every kind of job you did... in particular when you work in an intangible job sector like CGI, programming, visual arts and so on...

            In any case your arguments are quite good and I think it's fine that every year there is a new pretender for the throne of the best (personal) renderer...

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            • Originally posted by PIXELBOX_SRO View Post
              Because 60% increase in speed for $1,200, that kinda sucks, now that you can get The Last Titan X for good prices on ebay. But what really is disappointing is the 12GB of ram, same as last generation. Speed is good, but everyone was really hoping for more ram for larger scenes. I mean 12GB what happened to 16GB? GTX 1080 has 8GB, last year had 12GB double what the 980TI had, then before that the Titan had 6GB double what the 780TI had.... We got ripped so they can sell Quadros and Teslas.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by jstrob View Post
                Ok I just these on the fstorm facebook page and I really think we have to find why those renders look so real. The glow, the DOF, the way the light reflect on any kind of surfaces, it looks more real in my humble opinion.

                Is that really just the user's experience?

                https://www.facebook.com/groups/FSto...1363819826697/

                https://www.facebook.com/groups/FSto...5399546089791/

                we have to find why it looks more real in order to implement all these little deatails in V-Ray.
                i think we all watch bertrand's work, he does some really great stuff but some of his most realistic works were done with octane and corona so far that in my opinion, these set of renders done with fstorm are just really impressive, i have been also testing it with my crappy graphics card on small scenes, its really not normal at all, it doesnt need complex shaders to get what you need right away. once Bertrand gets his hands on this for sure we will see some nice stuff. Its early days for Fstorm but seems they learnt from octane and made something impressive, especially with the tonemapping side of things and the soft realistic look. The gpu guys must be eating it up
                Last edited by mitviz; 22-07-2016, 07:53 AM.
                Architectural and Product Visualization at MITVIZ
                http://www.mitviz.com/
                http://mitviz.blogspot.com/
                http://www.flickr.com/photos/shawnmitford/

                i7 5960@4 GHZm, 64 gigs Ram, Geforce gtx 970, Geforce RTX 2080 ti x2

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                • I am not seeing a way to convert a scene and there seems to be no download scripts.
                  Bobby Parker
                  www.bobby-parker.com
                  e-mail: info@bobby-parker.com
                  phone: 2188206812

                  My current hardware setup:
                  • Ryzen 9 5900x CPU
                  • 128gb Vengeance RGB Pro RAM
                  • NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090
                  • ​Windows 11 Pro

                  Comment


                  • I found it! The bottom of the render setup.
                    Bobby Parker
                    www.bobby-parker.com
                    e-mail: info@bobby-parker.com
                    phone: 2188206812

                    My current hardware setup:
                    • Ryzen 9 5900x CPU
                    • 128gb Vengeance RGB Pro RAM
                    • NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090
                    • ​Windows 11 Pro

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                    • i dont think everything will be converted properly
                      Architectural and Product Visualization at MITVIZ
                      http://www.mitviz.com/
                      http://mitviz.blogspot.com/
                      http://www.flickr.com/photos/shawnmitford/

                      i7 5960@4 GHZm, 64 gigs Ram, Geforce gtx 970, Geforce RTX 2080 ti x2

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by glorybound View Post
                        I found it! The bottom of the render setup.
                        what graffics card are you running bobby
                        Architectural and Product Visualization at MITVIZ
                        http://www.mitviz.com/
                        http://mitviz.blogspot.com/
                        http://www.flickr.com/photos/shawnmitford/

                        i7 5960@4 GHZm, 64 gigs Ram, Geforce gtx 970, Geforce RTX 2080 ti x2

                        Comment


                        • Everything seems to have converted. I have the GTX 980Ti.
                          Bobby Parker
                          www.bobby-parker.com
                          e-mail: info@bobby-parker.com
                          phone: 2188206812

                          My current hardware setup:
                          • Ryzen 9 5900x CPU
                          • 128gb Vengeance RGB Pro RAM
                          • NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090
                          • ​Windows 11 Pro

                          Comment


                          • Apparently FStorm won't have these crucial features, i wonder why since Vray and Redshift already support most of these:

                            - Normal mapping
                            - OpenVDB
                            - Objects include/exclude
                            - Caustics

                            So it will just be a renderer for archviz and not much more...

                            Anyways i agree that a good tone mapping in Vray would be really useful, together with a reworked lens effects.

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                            • I simply opened, converted, and hit render.

                              Click image for larger version

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                              FStorm 19 minutes (bloom/glare is on by default)

                              Click image for larger version

Name:	9 minutes VRay CPU.jpg
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                              VRay CPU 9 minutes

                              Click image for larger version

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                              VRay RT 19 minutes

                              Redshift failed and only rendered some grayscale mess.
                              Last edited by glorybound; 22-07-2016, 09:35 AM.
                              Bobby Parker
                              www.bobby-parker.com
                              e-mail: info@bobby-parker.com
                              phone: 2188206812

                              My current hardware setup:
                              • Ryzen 9 5900x CPU
                              • 128gb Vengeance RGB Pro RAM
                              • NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090
                              • ​Windows 11 Pro

                              Comment


                              • It is amazing how different FStorm and V-Ray look. The glass is totally different and so is the shadows, however, applying a curve to the V-Ray ones would produce the same effect.
                                Bobby Parker
                                www.bobby-parker.com
                                e-mail: info@bobby-parker.com
                                phone: 2188206812

                                My current hardware setup:
                                • Ryzen 9 5900x CPU
                                • 128gb Vengeance RGB Pro RAM
                                • NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090
                                • ​Windows 11 Pro

                                Comment

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