Information on V-Ray 2.0

[PIXELBOX_SRO]

we also bought RT, but havent really managed to make it usable in our workflow....but i will not complain about this cos i take the money spent on it as a support fee for CHAOS for all the updates for free over the years

sure

in this economy its pain to spent every euro youve got but....come on....look at the money most of you guys spent on Autodesk subscription over the years!!!

i am not BROWN-NOSING but i respect CHAOSGROUP pricing policy given the fact that 2.0 will arrive with RT and RT GPU

BTW

here in Europe, we have to pay double the money for 3DS MAX then in US!!! How fair is that!

[throb]

If you are satisfied with it, and used it successfully, why would this leave a bad taste?

Best regards,
Vlado

EXACTLY. VRay has SAVED me more money/time than I have spent on it. Ok, so personally I have not spent money but I have worked for several companies (I can think of 4) that got VRay because of me and spent their money on it. What did they pay for? A product that improves work quality and ideally efficiency. Value for dollar is key. If you don't feel that you get your money's worth from a product, don't buy it or don't spend the money to upgrade. Hell, every time I see Peter and Vlado, I buy them beers or dinner. Why? Their tireless support allows me to to better and better work every time I use a new version with a new revision.

Running a company like Chaos is not cheap. Not even close to it. Let's say they have 25 developers on staff. Each person makes...what...75k/year? That's $1.87mil/year spent on developer salaries alone. That doesn't include all the other salaries (support, receptionist, marketing, training, janitor, etc) and additional resources needed like this forum, web space, office rental, power, machines, etc, etc.
It's a damned long list and I haven't covered everything.

When it comes down to it, our company will evaluate the 2.0 release and if we find value in it (and I already can see a massive savings) we will purchase and implement it. I suggest all of you do the same. Your money is hard earned...spend it wisely.

rob

[instinct]

Amen Rob! I can only agree there.

[m_hinks]

Amen Rob! I can only agree there.

Same here.

[jujubee]

I have no issues supporting them and Ive been an advocate for Chaos charging more in the past. I'm not knocking their work. They're great guys and I'm happy to take them out on the town. That being said... I respectfully disagree with some of the structure.

The main issue for me is that I thought after purchasing VrayRT a year ago, that I would eventually be able use it which still hasn't happened. Now, some of us who made that purchase is in a sense getting charged almost double again. If I knew RT was getting phased out (which it appears that will eventually happen), as said before, I wouldn't have made that purchase.

Some of you can get all fanboy on me, but I'm just being honest here. You can come down on me all you want for speaking my mind, but unless you purchased RT out of your own pocket (not employers - your opinion doesn't count then) as a form of prior support to Chaos (which is one reason why I made that purchase to begin with) then I don't think it's right to speak for those that have.

[instinct]

Huh ? So not having purchased RT "out of my own pocket" doesnt entitle me to an opinion ? Define "out of your own pocket"...for private use ? Or for work ? And beeing fine with the pricing scheme on my end is not fanboying or coming down on you...it's an opinion.

[jujubee]

Of course you're entitled to an opinion, but I wouldn't go around bashing those that actually did make the VrayRT purchase on their own a year ago that haven't been able to use it. Im just saying that I don't think that's fair to judge those that have made that purchase and are complaining about it now. At least try putting yourself in someone elses shoes for a moment, and maybe it wouldn't seem "fine."

Imagine if you bought Puppydog version 1 today at full price. The very next day, Puppydog version 2 comes out as a shock but you have to pay full price for the upgrade. That's kind of what it feels like. On the other hand, if you never bought Puppydog version 1 to begin with, why would you even care? Of course you probably wouldn't - it's not your loss. Besides, Let's not forget that Puppydog version .5 was awesome so everyone should stop complaining.

"Out of your own pocket" means that you paid for it yourself with your own hard earned cash - not an employer. It's irrelevant if it's for private use or work.

I wouldn't be complaining if I could have actually used it. And a bunch of us did bring this up a number of times well over a year ago. I'm sure the upgrade will be amazing on it's own and I would be willing to purchase that, but I wish the main problem some of us ran into would have resolved long ago.

Imagine if you bought Vray and found out a week later that you couldn't use it for a whole year because it turned out to be not properly supported. A newer release will probably address it, but you have to pay the full price again. I'm trying to make an analogy here.

I guess the lesson ive learned is to not be an early adopter even though you're enticed with all these shiny new sales deals/bargains, and you thought you might be benefiting others.

[instinct]

I fail to see why you think throb or my agreement would be "bashing" you. It didnt state you have to agree or share the opinion. From our point of view the scheme is fine. And i dont see why this would be wrong in any way. You're free to disagree of course and to some extend i can understand your sentiments. I dont think if it is irrelevant if it's private or for work. I am involved in the decision making process and money badly spend does have an impact for the company. I dont see the difference to a company that is a one-man show...it's still a business.

Anyways...as said i can understand you to some extent but things look different in other ppls situation. Understanding that is all i ask for.

Regards,
Thorsten

[jujubee]

It's not "bashing" per se, but I don't feel that people are hearing some of us and going on like everything is perfectly fine. To some degree, showing support for the structure almost invalidates our reasoning.

Secondly, I see your point. Ultimately that varies depending on how involved you are with the decision making process. I think it's more "personal" when it tends to come directly out of your own pocket, or if an employer decides to garnish your wages over a purchase (which they're probably not going to do.). The consequences of a decision are more directly observed and felt. But if you happen to be a small cog in a very large company, procurement may be a few steps removed and something seemingly small like this may not be of much concern.

[claude_tnt]

It was only $200 - be reasonable.

lucky you... i want to meet your dealer.. cause i was robbed of $100...

[leotchest]

claude_tnt - your first post in this thread. That is exactly my immediate response to seeing the upgrade pricing for those that have purchased both Vray & RT

[arobbert]

Wasn't there a demo/beta to test before jumping in to purchase RT? We rarely/never buy software without first testing it to see if it works for us.

DR was not available for testing. This was a key feature that has a direct effect on how long it takes for noise to resolve when compared to a standard DR rendering. We found the noise resolution time dissapointing compared to standard DR and were not able to test it before purchase.

[simmsimaging]

I don't think anyone is bashing anyone here really. There are a range of viewpoints out there and what I, and I think others, are trying to point out is that we can be in the same general position as you (I'm personally buying my software too, and I use LWF) and still find RT very well worth it even though it doesn't do everything one might hope. You can choose to discard it entirely for a year, but that is a choice you make and if you chose differently you could very easily have extracted $200 worth of value from it. Or not - but the end point is that there *is no one right view*. However, Chaos as a business is fully entitled to choose how to set their business and pricing policy and they have to pick one pricing structure. Someone will always do better, someone worse, but if you take in the big picture it is extremely hard to see how anyone does badly by dealing with Chaos group.

It's also a mistake to say that the support issue is irrelevant to the pricing of RT. You can't cherry pick the parts of the big picture you like and/ordon't and expect a company to charge along those lines. It *all* needs to be factored into their pricing to make their company profitable. The most you can do is pick which parts motivate you to spend your money or not, but that is on you, not the company.


b

[Donald2B]

I don't think anyone is bashing anyone here really. There are a range of viewpoints out there and what I, and I think others, are trying to point out is that we can be in the same general position as you (I'm personally buying my software too, and I use LWF) and still find RT very well worth it even though it doesn't do everything one might hope. You can choose to discard it entirely for a year, but that is a choice you make and if you chose differently you could very easily have extracted $200 worth of value from it. Or not - but the end point is that there *is no one right view*. However, Chaos as a business is fully entitled to choose how to set their business and pricing policy and they have to pick one pricing structure. Someone will always do better, someone worse, but if you take in the big picture it is extremely hard to see how anyone does badly by dealing with Chaos group.

It's also a mistake to say that the support issue is irrelevant to the pricing of RT. You can't cherry pick the parts of the big picture you like and/ordon't and expect a company to charge along those lines. It *all* needs to be factored into their pricing to make their company profitable. The most you can do is pick which parts motivate you to spend your money or not, but that is on you, not the company.


b

This is basically what I was trying to say earlier, only much more clear and concise. I agree 100%. I work in a gamma correct/LWF workflow and I still use VRayRT a LOT. I know where the weaknesses are and will try to minimize those conditions as much as possible. It still allows me to reduce production time quite a bit. So while it did have some issues, it was far from a "complete waste" as some have said. It's all in how you use the tool.

I also agree with Thorsten! I too am heavily involved in the decision making process and there are times that I make some good decisions and some bad.

[flino2004]

I totally agree!!...two years of work have to be paid for sure, as an RT user I did support your efforts

This does not invalidate the efforts we put into it... two years are two year, however we look at it.

Best regards,
Vlado

Chaos has been great in support...I would say that they have the best support that i've seen for software
Vray is an excellent tool...yes, and maybe it should cost more!!..but the discution here is mixing things, if i get good support that means that i have to accept everything and don't show my disappointment...NO!
it's not 100% about money is about respect the people how support new applications in very early stage....I'll pay the upgrade if it costs $510 or $1000.

Fernando