Important V-Ray 1.5 announcement

[andre]

travistlo,
you are absolutely right. i purchased max 6, expecting to be able to use DR, but since it´s not possible, i am still working with 5.
and even with 5 , DR is not as stable as you would want it to be.

andre

[radimek]

To Cpnichols

Why so personal. Yes, I realized that there are improvements. Yes, I also realized that Chaos decided not to charge for the upgrade, but frankly that's their personal business decision. I would be happy to pay for the upgrade, if it delivered proper documentation.
And sadly I do not feel I am crying for free gift. I have actually paid for the software and expect software documentation. I personally could live without DR for now.
All I am saying that deciding on the software platform is decision which costs more then 700 bucks + upgrades. Vray may be the fastest renderer, but during the project I spend more time modeling and setting scene then rendering. If that time takes me or people who work for me twice as much becasue the software is not documented, then no fast rendering engine can offset that. What you have to understand that if I am running a business, the cost of software is one of the least expenses during the project, the training and salaries are clearly the largest ones.

And BTW, Max 7 is coming in couple months. Is that possible DR will not work on that version again (not a Chaos fault) and 1.5 will be postponed another year? Just a though..

[cpnichols]

OK I have two questions then:

- What was in 1.1 that you expected and don't have in 1.09? 1.09 has more then what 1.1 promised.
- What rendering engine out there has up to date usable documentation? I can think of one, and that is Pixar's renderman, and that falls out of date with every point release. Good luck to anyone who tried to read a mentalRay document.

PS printed docs are dead. I know it is sad, but if they were not dead the MAX and MAYA manual would be over 10k pages. Online docs are the only way to manage the information.

[percydaman]

sadly, I must agree to a point about the documentation. Its not bad, but could be better. I think alot of the tutorials, chaos intended to create and include with the documentation haven't made it yet. Frequently, when you have many similiar 3d packages, its the documentation that can make one really stand out.

[Long John]

- What rendering engine out there has up to date usable documentation?

thats no argument at all.

[Long John]

it is pretty bug free, espcecially for a rendering engines, right?

no, honest it´s not.

[cpnichols]

- What rendering engine out there has up to date usable documentation?

thats no argument at all.

How is that not an argument? The point is that printed documentation is out of date before the paper has time to cool down.

Especially you Long John that has spent so much time complaining about this. Based on how much you complain, I would assume that you have done the research. Have you found a well documented rendering engine? Have you found a rendering engine that is not riddled with bugs or crippled by hardware limitations?

If you don't mind, I would like to list a few rendering engines, and I would love to hear what your impressions are compared to Vray with respect to documentation and being bug free (compared to Vray). As I said, based on how much you seem to complain about Vray, I would assume that you are familiar with others as a matter of comparison. If you have others please list them.

- Pixar's Renderman
- Cebas's FinalRender
- Splutterfish's Brazil
- Mental Images' Mental Ray
- Illuminatelabs' Turtle
- Nvidia's Gelato
- Radiance
- Arnold

On the other hand, you may know that the concept of the rendering engine is by its very nature the most difficult program in computer science to make bug free. If you don't, it is given as a classic definition based on "allowable bugs." No program, theoretically, can be bug free. By this nature one has to set a certain amount of "tolerance" for error. Based on the fact that every pixel has possibility of error, to produce an image requires that a rendering engines have the lowest tolerance for error compared to almost any other program. Less tolerance then even many Nasa or medical programs. Vray has the ability to produce images very fast, and can even produce two identical images from an Intel and AMD processor with two different floating-point calculators. Which is something very hard to do.

Now granted Vray is a "young" rendering engine. What it has above all the rest is the most efficient and fast engine in the world. Based on your dissatisfaction, I would suggest you use a more "mature" rendering engine such as Renderman. You are even lucky... they now have a version of Renderman for $1,000! A great deal! Of course you will have to take your rendering times and multiply them anywhere between 10 and 50, but it will be a small loss for having the leading rendering engine used in nearly every blockbuster film in the last 10 years.

Here is a link for you!
https://renderman.pixar.com/products...binfopage.html

[Long John]

Because if it is an argument, then why should a company do something better then others?

Povray suck in animation.
Is it a reason that all other 3d software has to suck in animation?

[percydaman]

Because if it is an argument, then why should a company do something better then others?

Povray suck in animation.
Is it a reason that all other 3d software has to suck in animation?

https://renderman.pixar.com/products...binfopage.html

[radimek]

Last post

This is getting really waste of time. Mr. Nichols, please, I am not interested to argue immaturely about whos rendering engine is better. I want delivery of the software I have purchased to be completed. I think I am asking nicely. So unless you are official spokesman of Chaos group, please save your comments.

My original comments were intended for Chaos team. I am hoping that some of tham can aswer my question,as they did in the past. I believe that this was the correct venue, as some other people are obviously interested in teh answer as well. If all this produces are flame wars a la Mac fans, then I resign to post to this forum.

[cpnichols]

Re: Last post

This is getting really waste of time. Mr. Nichols, please, I am not interested to argue immaturely about whos rendering engine is better. I want delivery of the software I have purchased to be completed. I think I am asking nicely. So unless you are official spokesman of Chaos group, please save your comments.

My original comments were intended for Chaos team. I am hoping that some of tham can aswer my question,as they did in the past. I believe that this was the correct venue, as some other people are obviously interested in teh answer as well. If all this produces are flame wars a la Mac fans, then I resign to post to this forum.

Point well taken Mr. Radimek. I am not a spokesman. I am simply a user that has been using many rendering engines and have a lot of experience in this matter. I am simply pointing opinion on a public forum. This is a public forum so I feel I have the right to express myself as a member of the public. I would suggest that if you wish to make a point to the company and not make it be judged by the public, you should direct and email to them directly. By venting publicly, you need to expect public questioning. I hope you understand.

Trust me I understand your frustrations. Having worked with Renderman for several years on some major movies, and having Vray in the wings, I have become a VERY frustrated with the shortcomings of the overpriced and overrated renderman.

I just wanted to put the things in my own perspective.... just as you are trying to do. I hope you understand.

[Dusan_Pavlicek]

Re: Last post

This is getting really waste of time. Mr. Nichols, please, I am not interested to argue immaturely about whos rendering engine is better. I want delivery of the software I have purchased to be completed. I think I am asking nicely. So unless you are official spokesman of Chaos group, please save your comments.

My original comments were intended for Chaos team. I am hoping that some of tham can aswer my question,as they did in the past. I believe that this was the correct venue, as some other people are obviously interested in teh answer as well. If all this produces are flame wars a la Mac fans, then I resign to post to this forum.

I second this.
I've been waiting for proper VRay documentation for so long, that now I would like to hear something from the Chaos Team on this subject too, not just from their fanboys.

[metroberlin]

to be honest..the documentation of finalRender ist brilliant !!! more than that !!!

[RErender]

The current documentation http://www.spot3d.com/vray/help/VRayHelp150beta/ is quite complete, what is missing? what do you hope to discover? some hidden talent?

[metroberlin]

hehe, this is true

and yes, the new documentation of vray is also very good i think. before it was not enough, but now it´s absolutly enough.